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Featured Bible claims/interpretations that don't make sense

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JustWondering, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. JustWondering

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    During the time that the flood happened according to the bible itself, multiple civilizations were prospering, Egypt and China to name two. Civilizations existing at that time made no records of a great flood when the bible claimed it occurred. Secondly. if the great flood happened as the bible claims, Egypt and China wouldn't exist anymore. That is the most obvious evidence against the great flood story. You can try to fall back on the argument some use that the story refers to a flood in a localized area and not the whole world. However, the bible claim is that god flooded the earth to destroy mankind. So the claim that the flood only happened in one area, doesn't add up. Third, Scientists, say there is not enough water on earth to flood it. Not only is there no evidence to back up the Noah story, there is plenty of evidence to refute it. So, I can't take the Noah story anymore seriously than stories about Thor and Ra. It is obvious mythology.
     
  2. JustWondering

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    As I said, the concept of blood transfusions didn't exist back then when the verses were written. The main reason for not consuming blood was because it could make you sick and that some pagan rituals involved the consumption of blood.

    I have to question the benevolence of a god that would forbid things that could save lives and avoid human suffering. I would have also have to question the intellect of a god that made blood transfusions possible when he doesn't want such things to occur.
     
  3. JustWondering

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    My friends must have belonged to a weird/strict branch of JW's or something then. For celebrating, you're right for the most part. However, I don't see why it would be wrong to celebrate someone's birthday. First off, your not bronze age Jews. I had a Jewish friend and I'm pretty sure he celebrated birthdays. Second, it's your family's celebration. If you don't like candles, don't use them.

    I remember clearly, my JW friends telling me on numerous occasions that wine back in Jesus's day was not alcoholic. Guess they were taught wrong as a joke?
     
  4. JustWondering

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    As I said in the OP, I got this directly from my JW friends. If they got it wrong, or were taught wrong *shrugs*.
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It is amazing how many Christians make that claim, and it also shows that they do not understand Jesus's miracle at the wedding story.

    For those that do not drink you serve the "good stuff" first, when people can tell the difference. What is a little bit amazing is that that was true even in the time of Jesus.
     
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  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    According to my research, the first civilization was in Mesopotamia, they say around 4,000 BCE (give or take a couple centuries)

    They begin by stating...."Homo sapiens, or human beings, have been around for nearly 300,000 years. For most of that time, however, they had no written history. During this time of “prehistory,” humans spent most of their lives moving from place to place, hunting for food, building crude shelters, and protecting themselves from wild animals."

    So there is no doubt that they begin their assumptions about man's history from an already pre-conceived idea.

    Prehistory in their estimations began 300,000 years ago.

    "The people of early civilizations needed water for drinking and for their crops, so they settled near rivers. One civilization, called Mesopotamia, was established between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now the nation of Iraq. The capital of this civilization was the city of Babylon."

    Beginnings and Early Civilizations

    That ties in with what the Bible says...though science likes to make statements about the dates.
    Radio-carbon dating is used to determine the age of the remains of something once living. But how accurate is it really?

    I don't usually refer to AIG, but there is a good description of how radio-carbon dating works in this link...

    Carbon-14 Dating—Understanding the Basics

    "The most well-known of all the radiometric dating methods is radiocarbon dating. Although many people think radiocarbon dating is used to date rocks, it is limited to dating things that contain the element carbon and were once alive (like fossils)."

    Many people assume that rocks are dated at “millions of years” based on radiocarbon (carbon-14) dating. But that’s not the case. The reason is simple. Carbon-14 can yield dates of only “thousands of years” before it all breaks down."


    Now, the oldest continuous civilization is the Chinese (dating from around 2,100BCE to the present day.)

    According to the following link, the timeline of "history" is only accurately traceable to about 3,300 years ago.

    See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history

    So this dating method, if it is misinterpreted, or because conditions on earth were drastically altered at some stage to interfere with the rate of radiation entering the earth's atmosphere, then C-14 dating method would not be a truthful indication of the age of very ancient things.

    The Bible deals with civilizations after the flood. What existed before that was erased. Babylon was mentioned first as a result humans again defying the commands of the Creator. Babylon was the springboard from which all other civilizations originated. Their stories and legends and religious ideas all come from Babylon. It was prophesied that Babylon would never be rebuilt...and it never was....but her ideas permeated every culture on earth and still do.

    So, to my knowledge, science has a method of dating artifacts that is only accurate for things a few thousand years old....not many hundreds of thousands, or millions of years old. What is indicated in fossils doesn't give science the full story, so they fill in the blanks with guesswork based on their pre-conceived ideas about evolution.

    That is how I see it.
     
    #26 Deeje, Apr 24, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You didn't watch the video did you? If you have no desire to be informed then there is no point in offering you explanations. The video was not put out by Jehovah's Witnesses...it was posted by the Australian Government's Blood Authority to warn physicians of the dangers associated with this practice. Look up the words "morbidity" and "mortality" that are frequently used in this video by physicians who are experts in this field of medicine.

    Educate yourself please. Ignorance has no place in these discussions.
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Or you are mistaken that they were JW's. We have no weird/strict sects.
    Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice. The Bible does not say "grape juice", it says "fine wine". I think you will find that your friends were Seventh Day Adventists. Would you even know the difference?

    Jesus was Jewish but his followers did not remain in the corrupted Jewish religion that continued after Christ's death, down the present. God had fulfilled his covenant, but the Jews had repeatedly broken it. According to Jesus, he was finished with them. (Matthew 23:37-39) They continue to reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah to this day.

    Those who adopt pagan celebrations are breaking the commands of God. Jews were commanded..."When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. " (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

    Anything that involved spiritism (demon inspired works) was "detestable" to God. It is no less detestable to him now. (Malachi 3:6)
     
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  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yes, C14 can only be used for very recent events. Those less than 50,000 years at the most, and when one gets over 20,000 years contamination becomes a problem that one must be ready to deal with. It is of little to no use for human evolution as a result. Men have been homo sapiens for at least 200,000 years.

    As to the flood we have known that there was no such event since before Darwin's time.

    And no, there are no such "pre-conceived ideas about evolution". Why can't you tell the truth about the theory of evolution? When you post obviously false claims it only makes all of your work suspect.

    Lastly when was Babylon predicted never to be rebuilt? That sounds like you might be conflating the failed Tyre prophecy with a prophecy about Babylon.
     
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  10. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

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    Yes, some of my key objections from the Hebrew Bible:
    1. Adam, who was a farmer with domesticated animals, as the first human. But science says this was 200,000 years ago. But farming and domestication of animals began 10,000 BCE.
    2. If pain and suffering occurred at the fall of man, this implies rapid evolution for all the carnivores and other creatures that eat others or that live in symbiotic relationships.
    3. Rapid evolution after the flood for all the "kinds" to evolve into the species belonging to each kind. For example, the dog "kind" of animals evolved from two dog-like ancestors to become wolves, hyenas, coyotes, foxes, dogs, etc, etc.
    4. The Exodus of 3 million people from Egypt, wandering around in close proximity in the barren desert with no manna for their animals. It's hard for even one person to live in such a place.
    5. The conquests of Joshua took place over 800 years, not in one generation. And some of the cities mentioned were not captured at all.
    6. The kingdom of David and Solomon was small.
     
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  11. JustWondering

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    I'm just imagining an illustrated bible book that doesn't hide the crazy stuff in the bible. I think people's heads would explode.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Especially Ezekiel 23 20-21. I think that might make my head explode if I saw it too.
     
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  13. JustWondering

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    So around 2300 BC, according to the bible, the world flooded (Which couldn't happen because there is not enough water on earth for that to happen). Only those on one boat survived to repopulate the earth (which is very unlikely because humans and all land based life would be horribly inbred). Then, roughly around 2200-2100 BC, god confused peoples languages and scattered them around the globe. It doesn't add up. There are written records from civilizations going back to around 1500 BC. The only cultures that make note of a great flood are those in Mesopotamia. Other cultures, specifically those on other continents have vastly different creation myths, are polytheistic, and their traditional histories have nothing in common with what's in the bible. So that doesn't back up the bibles claims and timeline either. The creation stories in the bible are myths. Also, carbon dating isn't the only tool they have for dating things.
     
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  14. JustWondering

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    I've seen it before. Blood transfusions have saved thousands upon thousands of lives. Pointing out that the practice has its risks doesn't invalidate it as a legitimate, life saving medical procedure. Every medical procedure has risks.
     
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  15. JustWondering

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    I am not mistaken. They were JW's (they pushed watch towers on me all the time) and they made the claim (on multiple occasions) that wine wasn't alcoholic back in the day.

    Ok, what does any of that have to do with celebrating someone's birthday, or mothers day, or May the 4th?
     
  16. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue I'm found.

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    How would you know that? I don't know of any medical journals written at that time which said consuming blood could make a person sick. People consume blood today, I haven't seen that it makes them sick. Blood as food - Wikipedia
     
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  17. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure I had one as a kid, but it only did the old testament.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  19. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yes, but those were probably guards doing that to Israelites. You could feel empathy for the babies and resent the evil guards. The verse that I cited was the other way around. The "good guys" were the ones smacking babies heads into rocks.

    ETA: And I will bring up the other verse I brought up:

    Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
     
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