Belief in the Gospels, or yourself?

[Master Vigil]

I have the "Saints Preserve Us" gadget on my iGoogle page. And todays was a quote from St. Augustine...

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.
Saint Augustine

What do you think?

 

[Phasmid]

Sounds like he's saying, "If you don't believe EVERYTHING in this book, you're not a Christian". May as well say, "Don't believe in yourself, believe all this stuff instead".

Then again I could be wrong.

 

[JimDaniel]

I think that to deny our (God-given) conscience regarding truth and untruth is a great sin, and that to hold up any object as truth incarnate is idolatry. I agree with a lot of what Augustine wrote, but I do not agree with what he is implying here.

 

[Luminous]

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.
Saint Augustine

i think Saint Augustine should had heeded his own words. he would have understood that the 'gospels' were chosen by some men. Some gospels were believed and others rejected already. The gospels contradict themselves. so then, what you gonna do?

 

[FreshDonuts]

This quote refers to the tendency people have to bring their own bias and personal opinion into Scriptural interpretation and then simply use that as a filter for what they wish to see or not see.

He is simply saying that people who want to see what they wanna see will, and that shows that they lean upon their own understanding!


PS. Its difficult for an agnostic to understand when this is exactly the point Augustine is trying to make!!

 

[Luminous]

This quote refers to the tendency people have to bring their own bias and personal opinion into Scriptural interpretation and then simply use that as a filter for what they wish to see or not see.

He is simply saying that people who want to see what they wanna see will, and that shows that they lean upon their own understanding!


PS. Its difficult for an agnostic to understand when this is exactly the point Augustine is trying to make!!

It is difficult for you to understand, my beloved brother, that the truth is plain to see: we don't know. who is best to interpret the validity/meaning of such things but the self? surely not the OTHER.

 

[FreshDonuts]

:help:

 

[doppelganger]

I have the "Saints Preserve Us" gadget on my iGoogle page. And todays was a quote from St. Augustine...

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.
Saint Augustine

What do you think?

I think you're believing in yourself either way. You'll find in a text what you bring to it . . every time.

 

[Heneni]

There isnt much to NOT like in the gospels.

Im trying to think which part people wont like.....perhaps the 'take up your CROSS and follow me' part?

Anyway there are discrepancies in the gospels. But they are there to offend a whole bunch of people. Its doing what it is suppose to do.

However....every writer of a gospel got this part the same.

Jesus Christ crucified and raised from the dead!

Its good to know that the majority of christians all agree on THAT part.

Heneni

 

[horizon_mj1]

In my opinion what was meant was you can not pick and choose the truth to fit your own standards. This I do agree with, but the gospels are viewed many different ways that is why we have so many different belief systems. I know several people who claim themselves to be from a particular denomination but say "even though my church beleves in ????? I don't". Then you have to ask yourself, is this peson really a part of that church or are they just picking and choosing what they like and agree with to call themselves a part of that church for convenience sake?

 

[sandandfoam]

In my opinion what was meant was you can not pick and choose the truth to fit your own standards. This I do agree with

Without your own standards how do you determine truth?

 

[doppelganger]

Without your own standards how do you determine truth?

You delegate to someone else to determine it. But that's still YOUR standard.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Your own standards may be different from the the factual truth; anything else is open for debate.

 

[ayani]

i would agree with him, and also agree that this quote can be taken a number of ways. i have known many people within the body of Christianity who have chosen to ignore many important parts of Jesus' message as recorded in the Gospels.

Jesus had some firm and final things to say about sin, His own uniqueness, and the demands of discipleship.

i've met many self-professed Christians who want to hear nothing about sin or its consequences, who believe that so long as one practices non-violence and is kind to others, that one is living a Christian life. now, of course, it is Christian to resist violent response and show God's love to others in action. but to leave out of one's faith life the notions of sin, prayerful repentance when one does sin, the commandment to evangelize and share one's faith, and Bible study (among other things) is to miss out so much...

it is to miss out on Christ's calls to truly come closer to God, and follow Him.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I think its a wonderful quote from Augustine, which I first heard through reading C.S Lewis.

I don't think its true that people will believe whatever they want to - though this temptation always exists and I think this is increasingly what is happening with the "do-it-your-self-" spiritualities gaining ground in popular culture, this fact being among its appeal. We have certainly come to resent the imperatives of revealed faith.

This quote certainly stikes a chord with me for the days when I practiced ecclectic spirituality that had no such need of the institutions of religion- when I simply followed my own lead and found only my own footsteps in the pages of the Gospels.

In my experience, the meaning of this saying is this:

That if one believes in Christ, truly believes in him, then one can not be left unchanged, one can not use him to justify their own self simply as it is. He will make demands which we don't wish meet and he won't come to us quite as we would like. These will be diverse and every one will struggle with their own particular demands.

For me, the evidence that I had truly found Christ, or that he had come to me, was found in something like this- the turmoil of being pulled apart inside, being faced with demands which I did not (and still do not) wish to live up to.

I often feel like my journey with Christ is like two men who have come upon an old and decayed brick wall and one has went to work building it up again, while the other (Christ) is swift at work to give time a little a nudge and finish it off. I lay a brick down, turn to get the next, and turn back to see that the Lord has removed it.

This might be a poor or strange illustration- but I'm just finishing up this bottle of wine that I have here....maybe other Christians understand what I am saying.

 

[wizanda]

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.
Saint Augustine

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, "I am" (EGO I-mee); and the "time draweth near" (eggizo): go ye not therefore after them.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that "I am" (EGO I-mee).

Careful analysis in Greek shows the ways Yeshua spoke and how the Pharisees do after; so it's better to follow Yeshua's teachings alone.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

The Bible is a guide to salvation and not salvation itself.

John 5:36-40 (NIV)

36"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

While Jesus provides the means to salvation, it's also important that our actions through our lives reflect genuine examples of Christ's character.

Secondly, I don't think it's impossible to understand that as humans our desires can lead us into trouble. However, we are also capable of realizing our better selves. Delusion and intuition are like two dogs in a fight. The one who you nurture more will win.

 

[Delamere]

The four canonical Gospels Gospels were accepted as authoritative and inspired early in the life of the Christian Church. The books given the title 'Gospel' are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They were produced by the community founded by Jesus of Nazareth which included his disciples, friends and close relatives - eyewitnesses of his life and death.

Other books claiming to be gospels were pseudographs and fake gospels which were never accepted as scripture or as having any authority in the Church. They were written by various sects which came into being after the apostolic age. Novelists like Dan Brown and the creators of Islam gave these books and their contents a status never given to them by the Christian Church.

 

[Buttercup]

I have the "Saints Preserve Us" gadget on my iGoogle page. And todays was a quote from St. Augustine...

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.
Saint Augustine

What do you think?

Sounds as though St. Augustine didn't like people to ask questions.