Basis for Trusting Muhammad?

[FearGod]

[

Don't forget the other things that will happen for the hour: War with the Byzantine Empire, ships powered by oars and people riding horses into battle and hanging their sword on trees.

I like both the Byzantine Empire and medieval warfare so am looking forward to these events happening on my TV screen.

Such kind of hadith is clearly fabricated and it contradicts one other hadith which
says that the last hour wars are destructive and such destruction can't be done with the sword.

Great cities will be ruined and it will be as if they had not existed the day before.(Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman)

 

[Aupmanyav]

And I would further agree and extend your observation about watching shoes being tied to others. If watching, say, Muhammad, do the equivalent of tying his shoes leads one to serve God better, then that is the basis for trusting Muhammad.

Few Jews believe Moses tied his shoe correctly, some Christians believe that Jesus tied his shoes correctly, all Muslims believe Mohammad tied his shoes correctly.

 

[rosends]

They were fine with listening to an exiled murderer as long as they were promised land of their own, but as the years wore on and they were killed off for varying reasons, their patience started to wear thin AND none of them got to this Promised Land by the end anyway.

Actually, according to Judaism, a large number DID.

 

[Augustus]

[

Such kind of hadith is clearly fabricated and it contradicts one other hadith which
says that the last hour wars are destructive and such destruction can't be done with the sword.

Great cities will be ruined and it will be as if they had not existed the day before.(Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman)

Miraculous.

Great cities being totally destroyed is completely without precedent in the Abrahamic tradition.

 

[Shad]

I don't think that's false and the point was mentioned by another poster. But I'm interested in hearing why Muslims today believe that Muhammad must have been a prophet. Whether its actually true or even pssible is irrelevant to me. I just want to know why.

I do not always read every post so if I repeated a point apologies.

To answer your question as an outsider I would say as per my response religion and culture conditioning along with limiting one's knowledge such as secondary sources. Justification comes comes after the belief has been established. This method is shared by many religions.

 

[Shad]

I think I hear a Muslim tell me that. Does it not say so?

It's "made of clay" and "made of dust" among other things we are "made" of.

 

[FearGod]

Miraculous.

Great cities being totally destroyed is completely without precedent in the Abrahamic tradition.

A complete destruction of one great city in one day can never be imagined by people fighting with the swords.
I don't really remember but there's one other hadith which says that camels will not be used in wars.

 

[Shad]

I think he meant clay.

All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.

Clay is a vague term as not all clay contains the same materials. Also clay contains compounds that are toxic to humans. So no these myths are still wrong.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"God is One. There is none worthy of worship except Him. He has no associate. He is the sole Creator of the Universe. God is Unseen and All Powerful and to portray Him with figures and statues is not right. Muhammad is God's Messenger just like Abraham, Moses and Jesus..."

That claim has been made by many who did not succeed as well as Moses, Jesus and Mohammad. Among the latest are Joseph Smith, Bahaullah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, David Koresh ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mahdi_claimants, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

There also are people who claim to be Avataras and Buddhas. Wikipedia has tried to make list.

 

[Shad]

A complete destruction of one great city in one day can never be imagined by people fighting with the swords.
I don't really remember but there's one other hadith which says that camels will not be used in wars.

Pompeii ......

 

[metis]

One of the challenges with objective interpretation is dealing with the timing of a supposed event in regards to when it was written about. According to studies based both on glottochronology (the evolution of languages) and comparative histories, often the writing of a text was done much later than the event covered, thus raising questions of historical accuracy. How many times was a person or even God placed as being central to an event whereas the reality might be very different, and then we have to add the subjective aspect into the formula as well?

I keep throwing in these monkey-wrenches because it really is difficult to say things of certainty when going back that far in time, especially when we consider the subjective nature of religion-- any religion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Miraculous. Great cities being totally destroyed is completely without precedent in the Abrahamic tradition.

That is not correct.

"Divine judgment by God was then passed upon Sodom and Gomorrah and two neighboring cities, which were completely consumed by fire and brimstone." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Then Jesus began to criticize openly the cities in which he had done many of his miracles, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you! And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to Hades! For if the miracles done among you had been done in Sodom, it would have continued to this day. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woes_to_the_unrepentant_cities

Mohammad went one step further. He did not wait for God to destroy the cities, he himself had them destroyed.

 

[FearGod]

Pompeii ......

Is it great cities?
When one other hadith says that people will compete in constructing the taller buildings
then we may imagine how the great cities will look like.

 

[FearGod]

That is not correct.

"Divine judgment by God was then passed upon Sodom and Gomorrah and two neighboring cities, which were completely consumed by fire and brimstone." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Then Jesus began to criticize openly the cities in which he had done many of his miracles, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you! And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to Hades! For if the miracles done among you had been done in Sodom, it would have continued to this day. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woes_to_the_unrepentant_cities

Mohammad went one step further. He did not wait for God to destroy the cities, he himself had them destroyed.

Do you regard Sodom and Gomorrah as great cities?
Actually the hadith mentioning the increasing frequency of earthquakes on earth
has nothing to do with the hadith of the destruction of the great cities and also the hadith
doesn't say that the great cities will be ruined by God as kind of punishment.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The great cities of Cannan were no better than large villages in India, Egypt, China or Mesopotamia. I do not know how big they were. Rakhigarhi was the largest Indus valley town. Mohanjodaro is believed to have had a population of 40,000, Harappa 24,000, Lothal 15,000. Other major settlements of the Harappan civilization were Ganeriwala, Dholavira, Kalibangan and Alamgirpur. If we go by the books, then Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstones. As for Kfarnahum, Chorazon and Bethsaida, they are more recent. You can check their histories in Wikipedia.

 

[FearGod]

The great cities of Cannan were no better than large villages in India, Egypt, China or Mesopotamia. I do not know how big they were. Rakhigarhi was the largest Indus valley town. Mohanjodaro is believed to have had a population of 40,000, Harappa 24,000, Lothal 15,000. Other major settlements of the Harappan civilization were Ganeriwala, Dholavira, Kalibangan and Alamgirpur. If we go by the books, then Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstones. As for Kfarnahum, Chorazon and Bethsaida, they are more recent. You can check their histories in Wikipedia.

And from the date of prophet Muhammed till our days how many great cities were ruined in one day night?

 

[von bek]

And from the date of prophet Muhammed till our days how many great cities were ruined in one day night?

I thought your challenge was that ancient people could not even imagine the destruction of a great city in a single day?

 

[Aupmanyav]

And from the date of prophet Muhammed till our days how many great cities were ruined in one day night?

Well, since you ask me - there are two cities which were destroyed in a day in modern times, or you can say within 5 minutes. They were Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Though Japanese have rebuilt them in greater measure.

 

[buddhist]

Regardless what it means, still Buddha is a man.

What about it?

What kind of teachings that helps you, examples

The Eightfold Path, jhanic meditation, etc.

Our relation is direct to God, no relation with the prophet, he delivered the message and he gone.

If the "prophet" never existed, then that "prophet's" message is invalid, and his "god" would also be invalid. It is a cult of personality, that depends on the real existence and the real acts of that prophet to verify and validate his message and his god.

On the other hand, there is no god which must be validated in Buddhism, nor a god's message. The Buddha's message itself is verifiable by the individual in any point in time or history, without dependance on the true, real existence of the Buddha and his alleged acts.

For example, Muhammad might have said "God's Name is Allah". I can't verify that message for myself. I have to have blind faith that 1. Muhammad actually existed, 2. that he actually said that, in order to believe, also on blind faith, that "God's Name is Allah". Similar arguments goes for Abraham, or Jesus.

Buddha also might have said "life is filled with suffering, and right mindfulness and concentration leads to cessation of suffering". I *can* verify that message for myself, as I understand suffering personally, and through personal practice of mindfulness and concentration, I know for myself that it leads to a reduction in suffering. I do not need to have faith that 1. the Buddha actually existed as a man/ghost/god/etc., and 2. that the Buddha actually taught that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@ Buddhist, they won't be able to understand Buddhism or Advaita Hinduism. They are Muslims. Very difficult for them.