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Basis for Trusting Muhammad?

Tumah

Veteran Member
I believe your point is also true and supports my point from a different perspective. I agree that someone who truly serves God must necessarily have every action reflect that service as you stated. And I would further agree and extend your observation about watching shoes being tied to others. If watching, say, Muhammad, do the equivalent of tying his shoes leads one to serve God better, then that is the basis for trusting Muhammad.
I hear what you are saying and I agree with you, but only up to a certain point. There is no Jew in the world that would have trusted the Maggid had he instituted a new religion with a new book. Heck, even if he didn't make a new religion, but claimed to be a Jewish prophet, he'd probably have been lynched.

And this case of Muhammad is even harder. In the case of the Maggid, there was already an existing framework within which a Jew could ascertain that the Maggid is coming from a real concept. But the Arabs of the day didn't even have that. A random man, they had no relationship to, gets up and claims to be a prophet of G-d and builds them an entirely new religion from scratch. They don't even have a framework to determine if what he is teaching them is called serving G-d better. And before you argue that a framework isn't necessary, consider that he gave them a framework. Which means both he and they now believe that a framework is necessary. So what standard did they have to decide he was teaching them this?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
A man comes out of a cave and claims he recieved a prophecy. Why do you believe him?

Yes, I understand he was successful in his wars. But does that make him more heaven-sent than any other successful general?

If you were around in the time of Muhammad, on what basis would you believe he's telling the truth?
Peace be on you.
1= All prophets come with pure, clean and truthful past.
2= Hazrat Muhammad (on them be peace) was well known for his highest morals before the grant of prophethood and this argument was used by Allah:

[Quran 10:17] Say, ‘If Allah had so willed, I should not have recited it to you nor would He have made it known to you. I have indeed lived among you a whole lifetime before this. Will you not then understand?’

3=People believed his clean character before prophet-hood:

Example 1 :
Muhammad was about thirty-five years of age when Quraish decided to rebuild the Ka’aba. A violent flood had shattered the Holy House; its walls showed ominous rents and it was feared lest it should fall. It was resolved that the walls of the Ka’aba should be raised and the roof should be covered. While it was being considered how this might best be done, a Greek ship was driven by bad weather upon the Red Sea shore not far off. When the news of this reached Mecca, the Quraish chieftain, Waleed, accompanied by a body of Quraish, proceeded to the wreck, purchased the timber of the broken ship, and engaged her captain, who was skilled in architecture, to assist in the rebuilding of the Ka’aba. The whole body of Quraish assisted in the operation, until the structure rose four or five feet above the foundations. At that stage, it became necessary to replace the Black Stone in position. Each of the four principal families of Quraish claimed the exclusive right of placing it in its proper place. The contention became hot, and bloodshed was apprehended. The building operation was suspended for four or five days and Quraish assembled again on the spot resolved to decide the difference amicably. It was agreed that the man who might chance to enter the court of the Ka’aba first by a particular gate should be chosen to decide the difference, or to place the stone in position himself. Muhammad happened to be that person. Seeing him, they all exclaimed: ‘Here comes Al-Amin, we are content to abide by his decision.’ Calm and self-possessed, Muhammad received the commission and at once resolved upon an expedient, which should conciliate every one. Spreading his mantle upon the ground, he placed the stone on it, and said: ‘Let one from each of your four divisions come forward, and raise a corner of this mantle.’ Four chiefs stepped forward and, each holding a corner of the mantle thus lifted the stone. When it had reached the proper height, Muhammad, with his own hands, guided it to its place. Everyone was satisfied and happy.
Ref:https://www.alislam.org/library/books/muhammad_seal_of_the_prophets/chapter_01.html

Example 2:
At first the Prophet reported his visions and revelations to a few close relatives and friends. A number of these believed in him and embraced the new religion. The very first person to accept Islam was, of course, his wife Khadijah. Then came Ali, his cousin, and Abu Bakr, his childhood friend. These were followed by Uthman, Abdur Rahman, Zayd, al Zubayr, and Talha. Zayd was Prophet Muhammad's freed slave and adopted son.

Then, as commanded, the Prophet took his preaching to his own clan. One day he climbed on top of Mount Sana, in Mecca, and called out:

"O people of Quraysh!

"O people of Quraysh!"

Hearing his call, the people of Quraysh gathered around him and asked what the matter was. The Prophet said:

"If I told you that there was an army behind this hill, would you believe me?"

They all replied:

"Indeed, for we trust you, and we have never known you to tell a lie."


The Prophet then said:

"Know then that I am a Warner and I warn you of a severe punishment. O Banu Abdul Muttalib! O Banu Abd Manaf! O Banu Zuhra! O Banu Taym! O Banu Makhzum! O Banu Asad! God has commanded me to warn my nearest kinsmen, that I can guarantee to you no good on the earth or in heaven unless you witness that there is none worthy of worship except God."

Hearing this, the Prophet's uncle, Abu Lahab, got up and said:

"Perish thou this very day! was it for this that thou assembled us here?"

Not discouraged at this cruel and harsh reception from his own kinsfolk, the Holy Prophet took his preaching to the people of Mecca at large. He spoke to them around the Ka'ba and he talked to them in the streets of Mecca. His message to the people in each case was very simple:

"God is One. There is none worthy of worship except Him. He has no associate. He is the sole Creator of the Universe. God is Unseen and All Powerful and to portray Him with figures and statues is not right. Muhammad is God's Messenger just like Abraham, Moses and Jesus..."

In short, the Holy Prophet asked the people to give up idol worship, return to the worship of One God and be kind and charitable to the poor.

The Meccans, however, rejected the Prophet's message and displayed considerable hostility to him and his followers. The Meccans did not like to be told that the religion of their forefathers was absurd. Mecca, moreover, enjoyed a certain status in Arabia due to the Ka'ba and the annual pilgrimage. The Meccans saw in Islam a real threat to their own social and political power and did their utmost to oppose this new religion.
Ref:https://www.alislam.org/books/religiousknowledge/sec3.html


4=How essentially different is the case of the Divinely appointed prophets, the upholders of the Unity of God who founded great religions of the world such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism etc. If we examine the lives of Moses (a.s), Jesus (a.s.) or Muhammad (s.a.) and other similar prophets who claimed Divine origin, we shall invariably discover that:

== none among them ever represented a well-established and popular religious order.
== Theirs was a lone voice of revolution.
== Invariably they based their claims on revelation and advocated a new philosophy demanding a completely different way of life.
== They preached values which were at odds with the prevailing customs and practices.
== They always emerged as harbingers of a new order and dared to challenge the prevailing religious authorities of the time.
== They appeared at a time when the dominant religions of the age had already split into sects and schisms, and fought among themselves for gaining greater domination over the ignorant masses.....
They presented a united front of opposition, exhibiting violent hostility.
==The Divine messenger on his part had no human support whatsoever. He was backed neither by the bulk of the common folk nor by any power group of the society. He was not championed by any political power. He was left alone, abandoned and rejected.
==The ushers of the new order always pleaded belief in the Unity of God and attempted to stamp out idolatry in every form, under every guise.
==If the upholders of the Unity of God were mere fabricators then theirs was an impossible task. No fabricators can ever persist in pursuance of such goals as lie visibly beyond their reach.
==The nobility of their message, the dignity of their conduct and their unshakeable faith in their final victory at the hour of utter desolation always stood witness to their truth.
==Theirs was a case of extreme sacrifice, not of greed.
==The character of prophets is like an open book which defies allegations of hidden intentions and secret designs. There is no phase in their earlier life before their claim to prophethood which could justify the accusation that they had planned to fake their prophetic claim at a later stage. No such evidence is at all found in the lives of the great advocates of God's Unity, like Abraham (as), Moses (as) and Prophet Muhammad (sa).

Details: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_3_section_1.html

5=Wars in Islam fall under three categories: i. Defensive wars – war by way of self-protection. ii. Punitive war – blood for blood. iii. War to establish freedom – to break the hold of those who kill converts to Islam.'

6=If one was around Holy Prophet (s.a.) time, one would have seen how terrible the state of world was, the character of claimant, his words, signs, people behaviour, good people around him, his ways of worships, his prayers, masses gathering around him with good changes. plus.......

7=Ahmadiyya-Muslims are seeing / have seen how prophecies about latter days, reformer, khilafat, success, opposition are coming true.

Good wishes.
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
No they didn't accept Moses until they left Egypt. If you look in 5:19-21 even after Moses' prophecy, they weren't happy with what he was doing.

Even after Moses prophecy was fulfilled they didn't completely believe him unti 19:9, when they get prophecy and see for themselves clearly that G-d sent Moses.
Earlier in chapter 4, they believed Moses enough to hear his message as it says "and the nation believed him and they heard...". But it doesn't say that they believed Moses was sent by G-d until chapter 14 when he finally fulfilled that prophecy he made to them.
Jesus having never made and fulfilled any prophecies would've had the status of a false prophet who is killed by Jewish Law per Deut. 18:20.

According to the Torah, they didn't try to leave earlier because they knew they had to finish their allotted time and wait for G-d to redeem them. The tribe Menashe made their own calculation and tried leaving on their own 30 years earlier and were decimated.

If the Jews weren't believing Moses then why they were escaping from Pharoah along with Moses?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Well, first off, Buddha is not a name. In fact, it is a title meaning the "Awakened One". It really doesn't matter to me if the Buddha was "really" Sakyamuni, Jesus, Socrates, Lao Tzu, or Atilla the Hun. What matters are the Buddha's Teachings.

Secondly, I follow the Awakened One's teachings because I am able to test them out for myself, and know personally - here and now - that they are helpful.

Regardless what it means, still Buddha is a man.
9702711544_c843a49e1b.jpg


So, in that sense, and to be precise, I am actually "concurring with personally verified Teachings" - I am not "(blindly) following a man."
What kind of teachings that helps you, examples

Those teachings depend on the reality of the man who proposed himself to be an required intermediary and personality between god and man. That's why Muhammad and his acts "must be believed to be real". Not so with early Buddhist teachings.
Our relation is direct to God, no relation with the prophet, he delivered the message and he gone.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Peace be on you.
1= All prophets come with pure, clean and truthful past.
2= Hazrat Muhammad (on them be peace) was well known for his highest morals before the grant of prophethood and this argument was used by Allah:

[Quran 10:17] Say, ‘If Allah had so willed, I should not have recited it to you nor would He have made it known to you. I have indeed lived among you a whole lifetime before this. Will you not then understand?’

3=People believed his clean character before prophet-hood:

Example 1 :
Muhammad was about thirty-five years of age when Quraish decided to rebuild the Ka’aba. A violent flood had shattered the Holy House; its walls showed ominous rents and it was feared lest it should fall. It was resolved that the walls of the Ka’aba should be raised and the roof should be covered. While it was being considered how this might best be done, a Greek ship was driven by bad weather upon the Red Sea shore not far off. When the news of this reached Mecca, the Quraish chieftain, Waleed, accompanied by a body of Quraish, proceeded to the wreck, purchased the timber of the broken ship, and engaged her captain, who was skilled in architecture, to assist in the rebuilding of the Ka’aba. The whole body of Quraish assisted in the operation, until the structure rose four or five feet above the foundations. At that stage, it became necessary to replace the Black Stone in position. Each of the four principal families of Quraish claimed the exclusive right of placing it in its proper place. The contention became hot, and bloodshed was apprehended. The building operation was suspended for four or five days and Quraish assembled again on the spot resolved to decide the difference amicably. It was agreed that the man who might chance to enter the court of the Ka’aba first by a particular gate should be chosen to decide the difference, or to place the stone in position himself. Muhammad happened to be that person. Seeing him, they all exclaimed: ‘Here comes Al-Amin, we are content to abide by his decision.’ Calm and self-possessed, Muhammad received the commission and at once resolved upon an expedient, which should conciliate every one. Spreading his mantle upon the ground, he placed the stone on it, and said: ‘Let one from each of your four divisions come forward, and raise a corner of this mantle.’ Four chiefs stepped forward and, each holding a corner of the mantle thus lifted the stone. When it had reached the proper height, Muhammad, with his own hands, guided it to its place. Everyone was satisfied and happy.
Ref:https://www.alislam.org/library/books/muhammad_seal_of_the_prophets/chapter_01.html

Example 2:
At first the Prophet reported his visions and revelations to a few close relatives and friends. A number of these believed in him and embraced the new religion. The very first person to accept Islam was, of course, his wife Khadijah. Then came Ali, his cousin, and Abu Bakr, his childhood friend. These were followed by Uthman, Abdur Rahman, Zayd, al Zubayr, and Talha. Zayd was Prophet Muhammad's freed slave and adopted son.

Then, as commanded, the Prophet took his preaching to his own clan. One day he climbed on top of Mount Sana, in Mecca, and called out:

"O people of Quraysh!

"O people of Quraysh!"

Hearing his call, the people of Quraysh gathered around him and asked what the matter was. The Prophet said:

"If I told you that there was an army behind this hill, would you believe me?"

They all replied:

"Indeed, for we trust you, and we have never known you to tell a lie."


The Prophet then said:

"Know then that I am a Warner and I warn you of a severe punishment. O Banu Abdul Muttalib! O Banu Abd Manaf! O Banu Zuhra! O Banu Taym! O Banu Makhzum! O Banu Asad! God has commanded me to warn my nearest kinsmen, that I can guarantee to you no good on the earth or in heaven unless you witness that there is none worthy of worship except God."

Hearing this, the Prophet's uncle, Abu Lahab, got up and said:

"Perish thou this very day! was it for this that thou assembled us here?"

Not discouraged at this cruel and harsh reception from his own kinsfolk, the Holy Prophet took his preaching to the people of Mecca at large. He spoke to them around the Ka'ba and he talked to them in the streets of Mecca. His message to the people in each case was very simple:

"God is One. There is none worthy of worship except Him. He has no associate. He is the sole Creator of the Universe. God is Unseen and All Powerful and to portray Him with figures and statues is not right. Muhammad is God's Messenger just like Abraham, Moses and Jesus..."

In short, the Holy Prophet asked the people to give up idol worship, return to the worship of One God and be kind and charitable to the poor.

The Meccans, however, rejected the Prophet's message and displayed considerable hostility to him and his followers. The Meccans did not like to be told that the religion of their forefathers was absurd. Mecca, moreover, enjoyed a certain status in Arabia due to the Ka'ba and the annual pilgrimage. The Meccans saw in Islam a real threat to their own social and political power and did their utmost to oppose this new religion.
Ref:https://www.alislam.org/books/religiousknowledge/sec3.html


4=How essentially different is the case of the Divinely appointed prophets, the upholders of the Unity of God who founded great religions of the world such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism etc. If we examine the lives of Moses (a.s), Jesus (a.s.) or Muhammad (s.a.) and other similar prophets who claimed Divine origin, we shall invariably discover that:

== none among them ever represented a well-established and popular religious order.
== Theirs was a lone voice of revolution.
== Invariably they based their claims on revelation and advocated a new philosophy demanding a completely different way of life.
== They preached values which were at odds with the prevailing customs and practices.
== They always emerged as harbingers of a new order and dared to challenge the prevailing religious authorities of the time.
== They appeared at a time when the dominant religions of the age had already split into sects and schisms, and fought among themselves for gaining greater domination over the ignorant masses.....
They presented a united front of opposition, exhibiting violent hostility.
==The Divine messenger on his part had no human support whatsoever. He was backed neither by the bulk of the common folk nor by any power group of the society. He was not championed by any political power. He was left alone, abandoned and rejected.
==The ushers of the new order always pleaded belief in the Unity of God and attempted to stamp out idolatry in every form, under every guise.
==If the upholders of the Unity of God were mere fabricators then theirs was an impossible task. No fabricators can ever persist in pursuance of such goals as lie visibly beyond their reach.
==The nobility of their message, the dignity of their conduct and their unshakeable faith in their final victory at the hour of utter desolation always stood witness to their truth.
==Theirs was a case of extreme sacrifice, not of greed.
==The character of prophets is like an open book which defies allegations of hidden intentions and secret designs. There is no phase in their earlier life before their claim to prophethood which could justify the accusation that they had planned to fake their prophetic claim at a later stage. No such evidence is at all found in the lives of the great advocates of God's Unity, like Abraham (as), Moses (as) and Prophet Muhammad (sa).

Details: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_3_section_1.html

5=Wars in Islam fall under three categories: i. Defensive wars – war by way of self-protection. ii. Punitive war – blood for blood. iii. War to establish freedom – to break the hold of those who kill converts to Islam.'

6=If one was around Holy Prophet (s.a.) time, one would have seen how terrible the state of world was, the character of claimant, his words, signs, people behaviour, good people around him, his worships, his prayers, masses gathering around him with good changes. plus.......

7=Ahmadiyya-Muslims are seeing have seen how prophecies about latter days, reformer, khilafat, success, opposition are coming true.

Good wishes.
I honestly hate people who give sermons instead of answers.

Anyway, just to roughly respond to your relevant points:
There were other people who were honest and upright and claimed to be prophets. Do you accept Baha'i on the basis of the Bab's acclaimed character?

"What about other prophets?" is not a logical argument. The question is about why you accept Muhammad. As I've mentioned in this thread, for Jews to accept a prophet/ess of G-d he or she needs to first be tested by prophecying about a future event and it coming true exactly as said. This needs to happen a few times for his or her status to be established. Only then can any messages from G-d be accepted.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
If the Jews weren't believing Moses then why they were escaping from Pharoah along with Moses?
Well for one thing, at that point Pharaoh was rushing them out (Ex. 13:31-34). So their choices were pretty limited. Besides for that they knew that someone was supposed to come and take them out, but they didn't know who. They went with Moses because there were signs that he was the one. But the signs were not definitive until they actually got out. The fulfillment of the prophecy proved that the prophecy and the prophet who made it was real.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Well for one thing, at that point Pharaoh was rushing them out (Ex. 13:31-34). So their choices were pretty limited. Besides for that they knew that someone was supposed to come and take them out, but they didn't know who. They went with Moses because there were signs that he was the one. But the signs were not definitive until they actually got out. The fulfillment of the prophecy proved that the prophecy and the prophet who made it was real.

Exactly the same thing with the prophecy which says that the Jews will control Jerusalem and will
fight the Muslims, prophecy happened and we're observing it.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Exactly the same thing with the prophecy which says that the Jews will control Jerusalem and will
fight the Muslims, prophecy happened and we're observing it.
Its not exactly the same though is it? In order for Muhammad to become an accepted prophet by the people, he'd first have to establish to them his ability to foretell the future. Then they'd be able to accept his message. Applying the same rules, they had no basis to trust Muhammad and should have thrown him out at best and his prophecies would have been lost or never occurred.

(Of course excluding Jews who couldn't accept his message anyway because of other problems besides this one.)

Since he was never established as a prophet, maybe he just built it off other religions' prophecies that he knew of. Or maybe he just put two and two together and figured that at some point if the Jews get back to Israel as a group there's going to be a problem with the current residents. It doesn't matter how he came up with the idea unless you want to consider Nostradamus a prophet of Alla-h as well.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Its not exactly the same though is it? In order for Muhammad to become an accepted prophet by the people, he'd first have to establish to them his ability to foretell the future. Then they'd be able to accept his message. Applying the same rules, they had no basis to trust Muhammad and should have thrown him out at best and his prophecies would have been lost or never occurred.

(Of course excluding Jews who couldn't accept his message anyway because of other problems besides this one.)

Of course the prophet should be able to tell some future events, that's what prophet means, prophecy,
the same thing in Arabic نبي which is derived from the word تنبؤ

Prophet Muhammed passed the test perfectly.

Since he was never established as a prophet, maybe he just built it off other religions' prophecies that he knew of. Or maybe he just put two and two together and figured that at some point if the Jews get back to Israel as a group there's going to be a problem with the current residents. It doesn't matter how he came up with the idea unless you want to consider Nostradamus a prophet of Alla-h as well.

You're guessing, maybe and maybe.
Many prophecies were foretold by him and being fulfilled.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Of course the prophet should be able to tell some future events, that's what prophet means, prophecy,
the same thing in Arabic نبي which is derived from the word تنبؤ

Prophet Muhammed passed the test perfectly.
Well, that clears it up then! Can you give examples of some prophecies he spoke that were fulfilled in his days? I really don't know anything about the Qur'an.

You're guessing, maybe and maybe.
Many prophecies were foretold by him and being fulfilled.
Not guessing, thinking. According to you, is Nostradamus a prophet of All-h?
http://www.businessinsider.com/predictions-of-nostradamus-2011-12#death-of-henry-ii-1
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Well, that clears it up then! Can you give examples of some prophecies he spoke that were fulfilled in his days? I really don't know anything about the Qur'an.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/379/prophecies-of-muhammad/#_ftnref26642

Not guessing, thinking. According to you, is Nostradamus a prophet of All-h?
http://www.businessinsider.com/predictions-of-nostradamus-2011-12#death-of-henry-ii-1

I don't know about him, but i heard that according to one of his predictions we should be not living today.
I think he's the hero for the disbelievers, or one of their tools to dispute religion.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

The only problem is those prophecies are from the Hadith - which weren't written down until about 200 years after Muhammad's death, and after the events 'prophesied' had already occurred. Jerusalem was conquered in 637, Sasanian Persia was conquered in 651; the Hadith weren't written down until way after that which means the notion that Muhammad prophesied about them is spurious at best, risible at worst.


I don't know about him, but i heard that according to one of his predictions we should be not living today.
I think he's the hero for the disbelievers, or one of their tools to dispute religion.

How could he be a "hero for the disbelievers" since most disbelievers don't believe in the efficacy of Nostrodamus' prophecies either?
 
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Tumah

Veteran Member
I don't understand why in the world it took 7 pages to get this answer. I think that's an acceptable answer.

Its a little unclear from the site because of how they formatted it. Can you give me an examplefrom the Qur'an where he makes a prophecy and then later in the Qur'an where it comes true? You can just cite the verse numbers, I don't mind looking it up myself.

Do you think his followers initially followed him because he proved his prophetic ability to them?

I don't know about him, but i heard that according to one of his predictions we should be not living today.
I think he's the hero for the disbelievers, or one of their tools to dispute religion.
The way he write is very vague and it can be difficult to know that a prophecy was fulfilled until it happens. Maybe it was just interpreted wrong. It doesn't really make sense to throw them all out, just because one may not have been understood correctly
What about all the ones that were fulfilled?
Just because his views don't match what your prophet taught, shouldn't automatically disqualify him.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I don't understand why in the world it took 7 pages to get this answer. I think that's an acceptable answer.

Its a little unclear from the site because of how they formatted it. Can you give me an examplefrom the Qur'an where he makes a prophecy and then later in the Qur'an where it comes true? You can just cite the verse numbers, I don't mind looking it up myself.

None of the prophecies listed in that link are found in the Quran - they're all recorded in the Hadith which were written long after the events in question had occurred. For the first hundred or so years after Muhammad's death the hadith were an oral tradition. It isn't a stretch of the imagination to assume someone retro-fitted those prophecies into place.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The only problem is those prophecies are from the Hadith - which weren't written down until about 200 years after Muhammad's death, and after the events 'prophesied' had already occurred. Jerusalem was conquered in 637, Sasanian Persia was conquered in 651; the Hadith weren't written down until way after that which means the notion that Muhammad prophesied about them is spurious at best, risible at worst.

If you think that the prophesies were fabricated later on, then that can't be true because many several
hadiths also foretold things that happened later on, a recent one was the blockade on Iraq then Syria
as a sign of the coming of the last hour plus the destruction of Syria(Sham) and the war in Yemen.

All these events plus the return of the Jews from all over the world to Jerusalem, i don't think it's all about coincidences.


How could he be a "hero for the disbelievers" since most disbelievers don't believe in the efficacy of Nostrodamus' prophecies either?

Some use him as a tool than anybody can make prophecies, so prophets and their prophecies are just coincidences
or interpreted in such away as to match one event
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I don't understand why in the world it took 7 pages to get this answer. I think that's an acceptable answer.

Its a little unclear from the site because of how they formatted it. Can you give me an examplefrom the Qur'an where he makes a prophecy and then later in the Qur'an where it comes true? You can just cite the verse numbers, I don't mind looking it up myself.

Do you think his followers initially followed him because he proved his prophetic ability to them?

People asked the prophet to tell them about the events that may happen which can be a sign for the last hour,
his sayings were recorded later on as a reference.

The way he write is very vague and it can be difficult to know that a prophecy was fulfilled until it happens. Maybe it was just interpreted wrong. It doesn't really make sense to throw them all out, just because one may not have been understood correctly
What about all the ones that were fulfilled?
Just because his views don't match what your prophet taught, shouldn't automatically disqualify him.

I don't know about him and I'm not interested to know.
 
Well, that clears it up then! Can you give examples of some prophecies he spoke that were fulfilled in his days? I really don't know anything about the Qur'an.

"The Romans have been defeated, In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious." is often cited as a 'prophecy', and it did come true.

Although it seems to share some similarities with common eschatological themes of the era. (and wasn't exactly a leftfield prediction anyway)

According to Theophylact, Khosrau II prophesied that “the Babylonian race will hold the Roman state in its power for a threefold cyclic hebdomad of years [591-612]. Thereafter the Romans will enslave the Persians in the fifth hebdo- mad of years [619-26]. When these very things have been accomplished, the day without evening will dwell among men and the expected fate will achieve power, when the transient things will be handed over to dissolution and the things of the better life hold sway.”66 The similarities of this prophecy to Kor 30, 2-5 are striking (at least according to the most widely accepted vocaliza- tion), particularly when one recalls that “the Command” (or “dominion, reign”: al-amr) is a Qurʾānic term for the eschaton: “The Greeks have been vanquished in the nearer part of the land; and, after their vanquishing, they shall be the victors in a few years. To God belongs the Command before and after, and on that day the believers shall rejoice in God’s help.”6

https://www.academia.edu/7800509/_T..._and_Empire_in_Late_Antiquity_and_Early_Islam

If you think that the prophesies were fabricated later on, then that can't be true because many several
hadiths also foretold things that happened later on, a recent one was the blockade on Iraq then Syria
as a sign of the coming of the last hour plus the destruction of Syria(Sham) and the war in Yemen.

All these events plus the return of the Jews from all over the world to Jerusalem, I don't think it's all about coincidences.

Don't forget the other things that will happen for the hour: War with the Byzantine Empire, ships powered by oars and people riding horses into battle and hanging their sword on trees.

I like both the Byzantine Empire and medieval warfare so am looking forward to these events happening on my TV screen.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
All scriptures were written by people who we really do not personally know, typically authoring narratives that usually cannot in any way be verified, written from subjective points of view, and usually accepted by people within their own religious tradition but questioning the religious tradition of others. What could possibly go wrong?
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I agree. Which is why Moses is never recorded as saying, "believe me because I heard it in a bush".
Indeed. The way I figure it, if someone claims to hear God (or sense otherwise), just go with it and judge the tree by its fruit and react accordingly.
What was his last sermon?
What does being the last sermon have to do with it?
That entire bunch of junk is based on assumptions made by men. I would think a Hindu would know better than to trust a bunch of men and their assumptions.
Like a dozen or so random nobodies who claimed to know the truth about Jesus?
They believed Moses because they all recieved a prophecy from G-d that showed that Moses was a trustworthy prophet.
In all honesty, the bible is FILLED with stories where the people didn't care much for Moses' ideas. They were fine with listening to an exiled murderer as long as they were promised land of their own, but as the years wore on and they were killed off for varying reasons, their patience started to wear thin AND none of them got to this Promised Land by the end anyway.
Create life by using the non-living matter and the story will end, no need to fetch for God
Geneticists can only work as fast as they can. A lot of things only God could do we now end up doing rather frequently. Virgin births were a miracle across the ancient globe, and yet now with a petri dish and a syringe, we can create millions.
Simple question, if life is a natural product which originated from the non-living matter,
so what prevent us from creating organisms from the non-living matter
Funding, for the most part. :p
And right now how many you could see around you?
Leave an open petri dish out ... you'll see them all soon enough and want to bleach your brain as well as your body and your house and ...

God challenged that we won't know what life is, God confirmed that the soul and the spirit is beyond our knowledge,
so if you think one day we'll know then why not till now?
How many kindergartners can do trigonometry? It takes time to learn this stuff.
This prophet Moses came with a prophecy that G-d will take them out of Egypt.
And this is where we learn to be careful what you wish for, because they wanted a lot of things and ended up dying in a desert ... out of Egypt, to be sure, but not where they thought they were going. :)
If the Jews weren't believing Moses then why they were escaping from Pharoah along with Moses?
YOU MAY TAKE OUR LIVES ... BUT YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ... OUR FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMMM!
 
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