Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

[Aupmanyav]

The Covenant is very clear and it is an essential foundation for the Book of Laws. It is the essential foundational component of the Baha'i Faith, as without it there would be no 'One and United' Baha'i Faith.

Covenant. Yes, this is what political parties do when they are in trouble in India. They ask their members to make a declaration and sign that they would stick to the party and not jump to any other political party. That is a covenant. Dynasty Congress has done it many times. Recently Shiv Sena also has done it. That is a declaration of continuation of servitude - 'You cannot differ'.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what compels people to read these books other than intellectual fascination, or a cultural study? There's simply no need, or reason other then that to read these books?

I think that what compels them is a need to believe something since they cannot stand on their own two feet and get by in life without their belief to depend upon. They have to believe that God is there for them even though there is no evidence of that. This is just my opinion. '

I have no such need, I just got ensnared in the trap and I got stuck believing. I am not saying I don't believe the Baha'i Faith is true, I am saying I do not need to believe it. There is a difference.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I never claimed hell has an address like 10, downing street.

If it has magnificent mansions, gardens with flowing water, throngs of houris to serve its inhabitants, then it must be an address somewhere in Allah's universe - better than Downing Street.

Google Search: Tite Street in the London Borough of Chelsea and Kensington becomes UK's most expensive street – with an average house price of just under £30 million.

Tite Street

 

[osgart]

I think that what compels them is a need to believe something since they cannot stand on their own two feet and get by in life without their belief to depend upon. They have to believe that God is there for them even though there is no evidence of that. This is just my opinion. '

I have no such need, I just got ensnared in the trap and I got stuck believing. I am not saying I don't believe the Baha'i Faith is true, I am saying I do not need to believe it. There is a difference.

It's either a need or a desire to believe something.

I'm not even mentioning those who use it as a control, and a power for their own purposes.

I am interested in what sincere believers have to say.

I find that you are very sincere. I don't know all the qualifications there are to be a true believer in all these religions.

I know with Christianity in fundamentalism the list of qualifications grew longer and longer.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it has magnificent mansions, gardens with flowing water, throngs of houris to serve its inhabitants, then it must be an address - better than Downing Street.

Google Search: Tite Street in the London Borough of Chelsea and Kensington becomes UK's most expensive street – with an average house price of just under £30 million.

Tite Street

No, that is supposed to be what heaven is like.
This life is what hell is like.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's either a need or a desire to believe something.

I am interested in what sincere believers have to say.

I find that you are very sincere. I don't know all the qualifications there are to be a true believer in all these religions.

Thanks osgart, I also find that you are very sincere.

Even though I am not a very good Baha'i at least I am honest about what I believe and what I don't believe and why.

I doubt that most believers are going to admit that the reason they believe is because they have a need to believe something, although they might admit that is their desire. However, many believers will say that they need God. But why do we need a do-nothing God?

 

[osgart]

Thanks osgart, I also find that you are very sincere.

Even though I am not a very good Baha'i at least I am honest about what I believe and what I don't believe and why.

I doubt that most believers are going to admit that the reason they believe is because they have a need to believe something, although they might admit that is their desire. However, many believers will say that they need God. But why do we need a do-nothing God?

As an atheist I have not seen a God do anything. Honest! Lol. You sound like you are at the point where you want your God to give you one loving reason for their existence? Am I right?

 

[firedragon]

If it has magnificent mansions, gardens with flowing water, throngs of houris to serve its inhabitants, then it must be an address somewhere in Allah's universe - better than Downing Street.

Google Search: Tite Street in the London Borough of Chelsea and Kensington becomes UK's most expensive street – with an average house price of just under £30 million.

Tite Street

Poor.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is a statement that needs clarification.

Hell is not a material place, it is a state of being.

Regards Tony

What do Baha'is believe lives on after the body dies? The soul? The spirit? When an evil person dies what happens to his soul or spirit, other than being "far" from God? Is there torment there? Is it very, very hot? But, in the Baha'i beliefs, does that soul or spirit stay there, or can it move on to a better place that is closer to God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, that is supposed to be what heaven is like.
This life is what hell is like.

Well, you are speaking from the Bahai angle. My reply was for Firedragon from the Muslim angle.

 

[shunyadragon]

Don't you believe that the next manifestation is likely to come some 800 years from now - Progressive revealation? In one of her posts Trailblazer gave us the exact number of years. Did I say something wrong?

It is unfortunate that an exact number was cited. Yes the Baha'i believe in progressive cyclic evolving revelation and the cyclic evolving nature of our universe and that of possibly an infinite number of universes and multiverses, I do not believe the scripture describes an exact number.

It remains the post where you brought this up was oddly sarcastic, which deserved the response you got.

I have no problem with the present evolving and changing nature of our spiritual existence. Yes, the Baha'i Faith will evolve and change to a degree before the next Messianic Revelation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Poor.

Yeah, Tite Street is poor, no open spaces. I do not know why anyone would like to pay 30 million Brishish Pounds to get an ordinary house there. I would prefer a hut in the mountains any day .

Another case, the richest Indian, Mukesh Ambani, spent a billion USD to create a 27-storey home in the heart of crowded Mumbai, which requires 600 people for its upkeep. What a waste of money. This is the costliest personal residence in the world.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The point was that there was corruption within the leadership of the Baha'i Faith. Why would we think that there is no longer anyone who is waiting for the chance to take control?

The point is no individual can take control and split the Baha'i Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Abdul Baha' supposedly got it from God. Would God still be using these same punishments that have not been able to solve and prevent the problem?

God doeth as God so Willeth.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

What better way to prove the Covenant that to have it severely tested, even by family members.

That none have succeeded, proves beyond a doubt that God has fulfilled the promise.

Regards Tony

I didn't know what to say to that, and you did so perfectly!

 

[firedragon]

Yeah, Tite Street is poor, no open spaces. I do not know why anyone would like to pay 30 million Brishish Pounds to get an ordinary house there. I would prefer a hut in the mountains.

Another case, the richest Indian, Mukesh Ambani, spent a billion USD to create a 27-storey home in the heart of crowded Mumbai, which requires 600 people for its upkeep. What a waste of money. This is the costliest personal residence in the world.

Somethings wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

As an atheist I have not seen a God do anything. Honest! Lol. You sound like you are at the point where you want your God to give you one loving reason for their existence? Am I right?

Not one loving reason -- one good reason.

I am as close as I ever was to joining the atheists and I probably would if I was not afraid of God.

 

[Truthseeker]

Because if Baha'u'llah is sent from an All-Knowing Creator (which is Baha'u'llah's claim) then we have to follow Baha'u'llah's law precisely in its fullness - inclusive of such teachings as burning arsonists alive, subjecting consenting adults who engage in sex outside of marriage to a fine etc etc. I would suggest that if you haven't read Baha'u'llah's book of law the Kitab-i-Aqdas, then you would have no idea of just how alarming some of those laws are.

Perhaps a perusal of the Kitab-i-Aqdas is a good place to start to understand our concerns;

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library

I would have preferred to direct you to the old Baha'i reference library as it is in a more readable format compared to the new website, but they have cut out the old link which had useful things like page numbers on it and replaced it's links with the bland new website which makes referencing it difficult and bothersome.

In my opinion

Trying to make the Baha'i Faith look as bad as possible, eh? We accept those laws after we have investigated whether the claims of Baha'u'llah are true. Ever hear about faith that a Manifestation of God knows better than our man made conceptions? That we do not know better than God?

 

[danieldemol]

Trying to make the Baha'i Faith look as bad as possible, eh?

Nope, like many things the Baha'i faith is a mixture of good and bad, but there are enough believing marketers around here to mention the good points of the faith, for a fully informed decision non-believers deserve to know the bad points of the faith as well, which is where people like me step up to balance the discussion.

Ever hear about faith that a Manifestation of God knows better than our man made conceptions? That we do not know better than God?

Yeah, its a strategy to get you to accept nonsense that you would otherwise reject.

In my opinion.

 

[osgart]

Not one loving reason -- one good reason.

I am as close as I ever was to joining the atheists and I probably would if I was not afraid of God.

That's quite a shock.

Don't know what to say to that!