Atheism-vague thread.

[CaptainBritain]

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

You will note I am a Christian, but trust me im not having a dig at you, I just felt the above phrase was quite neat and to the point and perhaps worth discussing.

Many thanks for any thoughts and feel free to move this if it in the wrong place, didnt know if it should go into philosophy, but hey it will see better trade here I reckon.

Its just ive noticed much Atheist stuff on here is in comparison or aimed at proving this faith or that faith wrong, however I would like to discuss what Atheism is in deeper language than "there is no God"

the phrase is: Atheism is the philosophy of death, try to discuss it but im happy for the thread to be organic, but no silly feuds please.

Cheers, Steve.

 

[3.14]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To the philosophy of Atheism belongs the credit of robbing Death of its horror and its terror.[/FONT]

 

[Alceste]

I think you'll have to elaborate to get much of a discussion out of that sentence. Atheism is not a philosophy at all, just the absence of a particular belief, so you'll have to explain the "philosophy" angle to begin with, then illustrate what part of that philosophy centres on death.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Well do Atheist have life after death in there thinking or is death it and final, if so how does that reflect on how they lead there lives, this is all there is and then death, i know certain eastern religions can be seen as Atheist in thoughts with re-incarnation etc,
But I think the phrase is targeted at the western notion of Atheism.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Greetings

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

I would liken this phrase to 'Christianity is the philosophy is potatoes'. We all die, so atheism is no more the philosophy of death than any other.

Its just ive noticed much Atheist stuff on here is in comparison or aimed at proving this faith or that faith wrong, however I would like to discuss what Atheism is in deeper language than "there is no God"

Sadly, I think you'll be dissapointed. I have 2 terms that I use: Dictionary Atheism (Which I simply call Atheism) and Pure Atheism. Atheism is, simply, the lack of belief in God or Gods (From the greek Atheos, meaning 'Godless'). Pure Atheism is the lack of belief in anything remotely religious in nature. Anything which is not purely scientifically based and can be currently proven by scientific purposes. Anything more is religious to them.

I would call myself an atheist, but I would not call myself a Pure Atheist, as I have a lot of religious beliefs (Well, that's a different discussion, but what most people would call religious beliefs ). However, if you're simply talking about Pure Atheism, then i'm afraid you may not going to have a huge amount to talk about...

Atheism isn't really a philosophy. It's just a religious stance (In the case of Pure Atheism, it is a lack of religious stance). Simply put, atheism means 'You don't believe in God' so it isn't really a philosophy by itself.

I don't really understand what is meant by 'Atheism is the philosophy of death'.

GhK.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Well do Atheist have life after death in there thinking

From this atheist, yes but not in the way you're thinking of.

or is death it and final

From this atheist, yes but you need to understand the first part to understand the second.

if so how does that reflect on how they lead there lives, this is all there is and then death

From this atheist, it makes me live my life to the best and make the most of everything I experience.

We are not all the same. Most atheists will have different views to these. The answers, especially to the third question is heavily variant between different people.

GhK

 

[Alceste]

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, but if we want to have a discussion about the phrase above, it will help to know what it's supposed to mean:

Atheism kills, because without God, there are no rules - anything goes! Atheists are at the forefront of efforts to legitimize abortion, euthanasia, drug-taking, prostitution, pornography and promiscuity. All these things cause misery, suffering and death. Atheism is the philosophy of death.

source - Does God Exist?

Now, with the issue unclouded, I'd like to say it's nonsense. There is no cabal of organized atheists charging ahead on various social issues that happen to be popular with conservative Christians.

I will say, though, that not fearing some disapproving sky daddy who says he will inflict eternal torment on his children for breaking any of his rules, I do have a much wider scope for the practice of genuine compassion and love on earth. If my teenage daughter is raped and becomes pregnant, I don't have to make her spend her whole life staring the product of her traumatic experience in the face. If my aging mother is suffering terribly with a tortuous wasting disease and wants the suffering to end more than she wants a few extra painful breaths, I don't have to force her to endure additional weeks and months of torment because I am too much of a coward in the face of the disapproval of God to show her mercy and help her end her suffering. And yes, if my brother was a pothead, I'd rather he be out enjoying a spliff in the sunshine with his friends after work without fear of persecution than locked away in a prison cell with murderers and rapists. And if my sister were a prostitute, I would rather her be practicing her profession safely, indoors, with help near to hand and ready medical care than walking the streets and climbing into the cars of strangers to go god knows where. Pornography, well, that's already legal, so you can't blame atheists for that. And promiscuity - haven't you ever heard the phrase "Thank God for Catholic girls?" It was coined by the horny non-catholic boys I went to school with who couldn't easily score in my secular school, so hung about the Catholic school up the road. I assume that they were more free with their bodies because they could sin, confess and be forgiven. We secular kids had our own consciences to contend with - not so easy!

None of the above has anything at all to do with death, though, but how we can conduct our lives with reason, compassion, intelligence and care rather than let priests and preachers pick and choose what they feel like we should be doing out of some preposterous book of rules written 1500 years ago.

 

[Father Heathen]

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

You will note I am a Christian, but trust me im not having a dig at you, I just felt the above phrase was quite neat and to the point and perhaps worth discussing.

Many thanks for any thoughts and feel free to move this if it in the wrong place, didnt know if it should go into philosophy, but hey it will see better trade here I reckon.

Its just ive noticed much Atheist stuff on here is in comparison or aimed at proving this faith or that faith wrong, however I would like to discuss what Atheism is in deeper language than "there is no God"

the phrase is: Atheism is the philosophy of death, try to discuss it but im happy for the thread to be organic, but no silly feuds please.

Cheers, Steve.

Atheism isn't a philosophy, nor is it "of death". Since atheists believe that this life on earth in the here and now is all that we have, they tend to hold it in high regard and celebrate it, and to make the most of what time we have. If anything, I would say that the abrahamic religions are a "philosophy of death" since they abhor their own earthly existence so much.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

You will note I am a Christian, but trust me im not having a dig at you, I just felt the above phrase was quite neat and to the point and perhaps worth discussing.

Many thanks for any thoughts and feel free to move this if it in the wrong place, didnt know if it should go into philosophy, but hey it will see better trade here I reckon.

Its just ive noticed much Atheist stuff on here is in comparison or aimed at proving this faith or that faith wrong, however I would like to discuss what Atheism is in deeper language than "there is no God"

the phrase is: Atheism is the philosophy of death, try to discuss it but im happy for the thread to be organic, but no silly feuds please.

Cheers, Steve.

It is incorrect to characterize atheism as a philosophy at all. Atheism simply says "I do not believe in God". That's it. Not believing in God is not a complete philosophy any more than not believing in astrology or voodoo is. It is probably also incorrect to posit that all atheists have the same moral philosophy or view of ethics. As a naturalist, I believe that it is advantageous to the individual and our species to increase human happiness and reduce human suffering, but I can only speak for me. In any case, if it takes only one example to disprove the rule, I hope that I can offer myself as evidence that Atheism is not a "philosophy of death."

 

[fantome profane]

First I have to agree with those who have pointed out that Atheism is not a philosophy, nor does it indicate a position on death or what comes after. Atheism is one simple position, there is no god, nothing more and nothing less.

However I think it is safe to say that most of those who call themselves Atheists do not believe in any kind of “afterlife”.

Perhaps some light could be shed on this question if you turned it around and looked at it from the other side. It seems to me that a major component if not the basis of many religions is the denial of death. Why are so many people unable or unwilling to accept their own mortality?

Atheism kills, because without God, there are no rules - anything goes! Atheists are at the forefront of efforts to legitimize abortion, euthanasia, drug-taking, prostitution, pornography and promiscuity. All these things cause misery, suffering and death. Atheism is the philosophy of death.

source - Does God Exist?

This of course is just pure simple bigotry and hate. I can see why you didn’t want to cloud the issue with it. (thanks to Alceste)

 

[Father Heathen]

Atheism kills, because without God, there are no rules - anything goes! Atheists are at the forefront of efforts to legitimize abortion, euthanasia, drug-taking, prostitution, pornography and promiscuity. All these things cause misery, suffering and death. Atheism is the philosophy of death

This statement is a pathetic straw man and ad hominim. The idea that the lack of an invisible sky daddy leads to reckless nihilism is a lame and tired argument.

 

[Kathryn]

I will say, though, that not fearing some disapproving sky daddy who says he will inflict eternal torment on his children for breaking any of his rules, I do have a much wider scope for the practice of genuine compassion and love on earth.

My respect for God doesn't lessen my compassion and love for others on earth. Why would it? Jesus told us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. To do unto others as we would have them do unto us. So I really don't follow your train of thought there. "Fear" of God lessens Christians' compassion?


If my teenage daughter is raped and becomes pregnant, I don't have to make her spend her whole life staring the product of her traumatic experience in the face.

As a Christian mother, I wouldn't have to do that either. I don't have to shelve my Christian faith in order to believe in and support adoption. As a Christian however, I have a very hard time considering the option of killing my grandchild.

If my aging mother is suffering terribly with a tortuous wasting disease and wants the suffering to end more than she wants a few extra painful breaths, I don't have to force her to endure additional weeks and months of torment because I am too much of a coward in the face of the disapproval of God to show her mercy and help her end her suffering.

Me either - morphine and hospice care and living wills answer these dilemmas.


And yes, if my brother was a pothead, I'd rather he be out enjoying a spliff in the sunshine with his friends after work without fear of persecution than locked away in a prison cell with murderers and rapists.

As a Christian, I don't care if your brother smokes weed or not. I don't have any desire for him to be jailed for it - unless he's high at work and his inattention causes an accident that injures someone else.

And if my sister were a prostitute, I would rather her be practicing her profession safely, indoors, with help near to hand and ready medical care than walking the streets and climbing into the cars of strangers to go god knows where.

I got a better idea - how 'bout you help your sister OUT of a life of prostitution? Sheeze! If she's stupid enough to have sex with strangers, she needs professional intervention - not help to continue in this lifestyle.

Pornography, well, that's already legal, so you can't blame atheists for that. And promiscuity - haven't you ever heard the phrase "Thank God for Catholic girls?" It was coined by the horny non-catholic boys I went to school with who couldn't easily score in my secular school, so hung about the Catholic school up the road. I assume that they were more free with their bodies because they could sin, confess and be forgiven. We secular kids had our own consciences to contend with - not so easy!

Now this is just foolish talk. So you think that sex with strangers is ok in one sentence and promiscuity isn't ok in another? You're not consistent.

None of the above has anything at all to do with death, though, but how we can conduct our lives with reason, compassion, intelligence and care rather than let priests and preachers pick and choose what they feel like we should be doing out of some preposterous book of rules written 1500 years ago.

Most Christian moral beliefs - chastity, honesty, compassion, charity - are ideals that have been upheld by cultures worldwide throughout history. Practiced? Maybe not. Usually not, in fact. But these ideals have stood the test of time. When we practice them, our lives and the lives of others are usually bettered.

 

[ChristineES]

Atheism itself is just lack of faith in a God but in a way, a few of them do use it as a philosophy. The same- some theists use their faith as a philosophy, too. Some people can use ice cream as a philosophy or cars or whatever.

 

[ChristineES]

I can't help but notice that some of the same folks who say that theism is dangerous are offended when theist says the same. (I don't believe either is dangerous except in spiritual matters- but since atheists don't believe in a spirit it doesn't really matter anyway.)
(don't listen to me, I am just in a slightly argumentative mood, because of my husband. )

 

[Alceste]

This statement is a pathetic straw man and ad hominim. The idea that the lack of an invisible sky daddy leads to reckless nihilism is a lame and tired argument.

In fairness, Captain Britain didn't want us to know where he'd got it from because he didn't want to get into a debate over the fact the source is anti-atheist hate literature. He just wanted to talk about the hate itself, without any context.

 

[Alceste]

Most Christian moral beliefs - chastity, honesty, compassion, charity - are ideals that have been upheld by cultures worldwide throughout history. Practiced? Maybe not. Usually not, in fact. But these ideals have stood the test of time. When we practice them, our lives and the lives of others are usually bettered.

I won't respond to your other points because I can't quote them the way you've written them. I can't help noticing that you appear to believe in the legalization of drugs and prostitution yourself, though. Am I right?

As a Christian, I don't care if your brother smokes weed or not. I don't have any desire for him to be jailed for it

I got a better idea - how 'bout you help your sister OUT of a life of prostitution? Sheeze! If she's stupid enough to have sex with strangers, she needs professional intervention

So, assuming you are for the legalization of drugs and prostitution does that make you a dangerous, immoral, death-worshiper yourself, as the author suggests?

BTW, morphine doesn't work - it eases pain somewhat, but doesn't get rid of it altogether. Also, your own omnipotent God is the busiest abortionist of all, causing 40-60 % of pregnancies to miscarry. If he is so merciful, why shouldn't we be?

 

[CaptainBritain]

First I have to agree with those who have pointed out that Atheism is not a philosophy, nor does it indicate a position on death or what comes after. Atheism is one simple position, there is no god, nothing more and nothing less.

However I think it is safe to say that most of those who call themselves Atheists do not believe in any kind of “afterlife”.

Perhaps some light could be shed on this question if you turned it around and looked at it from the other side. It seems to me that a major component if not the basis of many religions is the denial of death. Why are so many people unable or unwilling to accept their own mortality?

This of course is just pure simple bigotry and hate. I can see why you didn’t want to cloud the issue with it. (thanks to Alceste)

Well i tried to keep them out of it but they got in anyway tsk.
Not saying i agree with it as i understand the Atheist mind very little (and they struggle with ours too)and the things that govern it, larger part of the reason for the thread.
There are a lot of Atheists here and to get a good inward looking dialogue is valid i reckon.
Sorry about the quotes origins, but if it redeems me in any way i on purpose cast aside the rest as poppycock, but the phrase itself opens lots of doors to get to know your lots views better, I know all the wiki definitions of what an Atheist could, should and might be but to hear from peoples hearts on the topic would be good i think.
I thought id take the quote and put it to some good, think of it as giving Ham et al a slap, whilst sharimg your reflections on your world view.

 

[Alceste]

CB,I'm glad you see the rest of it is poppycock, but I am curious why you don't think that particular sentence, peeping out through the rest of the manure in that chapter, is not poppycock? If it doesn't mean what the author clearly intended it to mean in context of the paragraph, what do you think it means? Or, if you prefer, what different idea did that sentence inspire in you?

Anyway, my philosophy is a celebration of life. This one, that is. The one spent walking around goggle-eyed on the surface of a spinning ball of rock whirling about in the middle of billions of lightyears of nothingness. I don't see what death has to do with anything, except maybe to make life - limited as it is - all the more sacred and awe-inspiring to me.

 

[rockondon]

The phrase makes no sense. It is reminiscent of the Christian propaganda I often see where something is portrayed as being ugly in order to discourage others for believing or accepting it. How unfortunate that so many people form beliefs on things that they would like to be true rather than try to discover what is true.

It makes no sense because atheism is not a philosophy. Atheists may have all kinds of different philosophies or be members of any number of religions (there are Christian atheists too, incidentally), but the philosophy most commonly associated with atheism is secular humanism. It would be more accurate to say that atheism is the philosophy of humanity. Or perhaps the philosophy of life.

To give you an idea how silly it is, consider that I don't have a belief that a god exists nor do I hold a belief that giants exist. As such you could label me as an atheist and an agiantist (if there was such a term). Considering that I don't believe in giants, would you equate that lack of beliefs in giants with being a philosophy of death? Hardly.

 

[Smoke]

i understand the Atheist mind very little

The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing. Atheism is not a philosophy and atheists are not a coherent group. Saying that someone is an atheist tells you absolutely nothing about what he believes; it only tells you one kind of thing he doesn't believe. You might as well try to under the mind of people who don't eat grits for breakfast.