• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Ask Us About Zoroastrianism

DanielR

Active Member
Don't worry about that; this thread goes dead only for it to get revived again later. Ages can go by without people responding; mostly because there was only one Zoroastrian on this board until recently.

Nah! Sometimes people just get busy and take a while to get around to responding (especially for something that one needs to sit down and think about). =)

Okay I see :). I thought that maybe the question was stupid ;)!
 

Corthos

Great Old One
That's true unfortunately :(

I've ordered this book from amazon, hope it's good! I couldn't really get the Gathas in German, so I chose this!

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1517480205?keywords=the gathas&qid=1456695121&ref_=sr_1_3&sr=8-3

I like this translation a lot, as it's very spiritually/philosophically minded. Keep in mind, translations differ vastly from one to the other depending on the viewpoint of the translator. It's good to have more than one so you can check it against other translations, but if you had to choose only one, I think that's a good one to have. =)

I wish the original Avestan language was incorporated into that translation in addition to English, however. For example, the Ashem Vohu prayer...

"The path is the one and that is Righteousness,
Righteousness is happiness
And happiness belongs to the one
who wants Righteousness
only for the sake of Righteousness."

The traditional (Avestan) prayer is as follows:

"Ashem Vohu
Vahishtem Asti
Ushta Asti
Ushta Ahmoi
Hyat Ashoi
Vahistoi Ashem"

To me, the traditional prayer is powerful, but it's good to know what exactly you're praying in English as well, heh. =)
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Is one only born a Zoroastrian, or can one "convert" to being one? I love them, by the way. The Parsis of India.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Very nice! I am sure there is a HUGE number of those here in California, who would like to explore Zoroastrianism. It is really amazing, actually. I wonder if Zoroastrians have any "temple" in California, anywhere? Californians are very much interested in visiting temples.
 

Corthos

Great Old One
Very nice! I am sure there is a HUGE number of those here in California, who would like to explore Zoroastrianism. It is really amazing, actually. I wonder if Zoroastrians have any "temple" in California, anywhere? Californians are very much interested in visiting temples.

There's three, according to google maps. =)

In San Jose: https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...376983/6222396158936099938!5s+-+Google+Search

In Canoga Park: https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...515170/6128561729601131074!5s+-+Google+Search

And in Westminster (very impressive): https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...cDovL3d6bm4ub3JnLz9wPTIwMw!5s+-+Google+Search

Three temples... Fitting. XD
 

DanielR

Active Member

Corthos, I hope you don't mind if I quote you but about another subject! Take your time to answer.

Did Zoroaster only preach the Gathas and his vision to his people or is it an universal message?

Thank you ;)
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
It's My Birthday!
Corthos, I hope you don't mind if I quote you but about another subject! Take your time to answer.

Did Zoroaster only preach the Gathas and his vision to his people or is it an universal message?

Thank you ;)
It's a universal message.
 

DanielR

Active Member
Is Ahura Infinite?? But if he is , how can Ahriman exist next to him??

And is Ahura Mazda like a 'cosmic' mind, what I mean is if everything is happening inside Ahura Mazda's mind?

I hope those are not stupd questions lol :(:
 

Corthos

Great Old One
Is Ahura Infinite?? But if he is , how can Ahriman exist next to him??

And is Ahura Mazda like a 'cosmic' mind, what I mean is if everything is happening inside Ahura Mazda's mind?

I hope those are not stupd questions lol :(:

No worries! Zoroastrianism isn't a well known topic. Hell, I'm new to it myself, so I'm definitely still learning things and asking questions, too. =)

As for Ahriman, there are 2 schools of thought, from what I understand. Traditional Zoroastrians and Parsis believe that Angra Mainyu (Ahriman) is a personification of evil, similar to the devil. Gathic Zoroastrians generally do not, and Angra Mainyu is instead a regressive state of thought in opposition to Spenta Mainyu (not all Gathic Zoroastrians believe this, though most do as far as I know).

I believe that negativity exists only in our thoughts, words, and actions; not because of supernatural dooms or devils. Asho Zarathushtra doesn't ever refer to a personified evil in the original Gathas (as far as I've read), but instead speaks of right and wrong. Ahriman doesn't exist as a personified evil until later parts of the Avesta.

As for Ahriman's power vs. Ahura Mazda, that's a good question... As far as traditional views are concerned, Ahura Mazda is more powerful than Ahriman. How much more powerful he is, I couldn't say... I need to look into that more when I have time. XD

As for your ideas on us existing in Ahura Mazda's mind, that's a cool concept. =) Not sure that fits in with Zoroastrianism, though. Our physical, as well as mental existence is referred to in the Gathas by Asho Zarathushtra, and it doesn't seem to imply the kind of scenerio you mention. Kind of off topic: your idea reminds me of Link's Awakening, which I loved. XD
 
Last edited:

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Is Ahura Infinite?? But if he is , how can Ahriman exist next to him??

I wouldn't think so. Asking if he's infinite or not seems to be missing the point. That said, that doesn't make your question a bad one. Nothing wrong at all with trying to understand the divine. I suspect most Zoroastrians here would argue that Ahura Mazda isn't a physical quantity; he's a mental one - considering he's the source of Good Thought, Righteousness, Self-Domination, Serenity and so on.


And is Ahura Mazda like a 'cosmic' mind, what I mean is if everything is happening inside Ahura Mazda's mind?

I would guess 'no'. We are products of Ahura Mazda's intention to conquer evil & Regressive Mind (Angra Mainyu). It's like asking if we're the painting the painter sees before he starts it. We are not. We are the finished work. Mazda is the artist.


I hope those are not stupd questions lol :(:

I'd say "there's no such thing as a stupid question", but it'd taste a lie to say it. Yours, though, ain't any of that.
 

DanielR

Active Member
No worries! Zoroastrianism isn't a well known topic. Hell, I'm new to it myself, so I'm definitely still learning things and asking questions, too. =)

As for Ahriman, there are 2 schools of thought, from what I understand. Traditional Zoroastrians and Parsis believe that Angra Mainyu (Ahriman) is a personification of evil, similar to the devil. Gathic Zoroastrians generally do not, and Angra Mainyu is instead a regressive state of thought in opposition to Spenta Mainyu (not all Gathic Zoroastrians believe this, though most do as far as I know).

I believe that negativity exists only in our thoughts, words, and actions; not because of supernatural dooms or devils. Asho Zarathushtra doesn't ever refer to a personified evil in the original Gathas (as far as I've read), but instead speaks of right and wrong. Ahriman doesn't exist as a personified evil until later parts of the Avesta.

As for Ahriman's power vs. Ahura Mazda, that's a good question... As far as traditional views are concerned, Ahura Mazda is more powerful than Ahriman. How much more powerful he is, I couldn't say... I need to look into that more when I have time. XD

As for your ideas on us existing in Ahura Mazda's mind, that's a cool concept. =) Not sure that fits in with Zoroastrianism, though. Our physical, as well as mental existence is referred to in the Gathas by Asho Zarathushtra, and it doesn't seem to imply the kind of scenerio you mention. Kind of off topic: your idea reminds me of Link's Awakening, which I loved. XD

Thanks Corthos!

Link's Awakening , was that the GameBoy game or a later version, I don't remember anymore, I'm also a huge Zelda fan, I love Diablo too (noticed your Tyrael signature :D)!
 

DanielR

Active Member
I wouldn't think so. Asking if he's infinite or not seems to be missing the point. That said, that doesn't make your question a bad one. Nothing wrong at all with trying to understand the divine. I suspect most Zoroastrians here would argue that Ahura Mazda isn't a physical quantity; he's a mental one - considering he's the source of Good Thought, Righteousness, Self-Domination, Serenity and so on.




I would guess 'no'. We are products of Ahura Mazda's intention to conquer evil & Regressive Mind (Angra Mainyu). It's like asking if we're the painting the painter sees before he starts it. We are not. We are the finished work. Mazda is the artist.




I'd say "there's no such thing as a stupid question", but it'd taste a lie to say it. Yours, though, ain't any of that.

Thank you , I'm still stuck in my concept of Brahman I think! :D That's why I wondered if Ahura Mazda is like consciousness or mind :p.
 

Corthos

Great Old One
Thank you , I'm still stuck in my concept of Brahman I think! :D That's why I wondered if Ahura Mazda is like consciousness or mind :p.

Well, Ahura Mazda is literally translated as Lord (masculine) of Wisdom (feminine). He/she's often referred in the Gathas as a supreme intelligence. Here is what one website says about Ahura Mazda's nature...

"Zarathustra discovered a precise order and organization in the universe. He concluded that such precision within creation was not possible without the existence of a Most Wise Creator, who made and created everything through His/Hers Essence, while being without gender, what humans call feminine and masculine traits. Another unique characteristic of the Wise One is that H/She communicates and manifests Him/Herself to mortals through His/Hers own ethical attributes, which are a part of His/Hers Being, that yet can be shared by mortals, if they so choose. A Divinity, who with His/Hers superior Knowledge creates, orders and sustains Creation and who communicates with Man. A benelovent, beneficent God, who is not to be feared, because H/She neither judges, nor punishes. It is one's own conscience that judges one's soul, at the time of death. A Wise Lord, who gives humans complete freedom and is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient in the Judeo/Christian/Islamic sense. Though H/She is the Mightiest, yet cannot go against His/Hers own nature, plan or design and in that sense, H/She is not Omnipotent. H/She is not Omniscient either, because H/She does not know how we are going to choose, nor whether an accident, illness or some other chance event is going to occur. Such is the freedom of choice given to Mankind! This is the fundamental difference between Mazda Ahura and all other god-ideas."

http://www.tenets.zoroastrian-fire-temple.com/mazda_ahura.html

The writer makes assumptions (which I am unsure of, and take with a grain of salt), but I do like the general idea behind what they write. =)

(by the way, if you love Diablo, try Path of Exile) XD
 
“The account of the origins and transmission of knowledge and the sciences as depicted in the combined reports is clear. Zoroaster received from Ohrmazd the Good God the texts of the Avesta, which include all knowledge (§1). The destruction wrought upon Persia by Alexander the Great, however, caused these texts to be dispersed throughout the world (§2). The Greeks and the Egyptians derived their knowledge from these Zoroastrian texts which Alexander had translated into Greek and Coptic (§3). Subsequently Sasanian emperors took it upon themselves to collect all these texts and the knowledge that was derived from them from the various places where they had been scattered (§§6–7): the sources name India and Byzantium, and Abū-Sahl adds China...

The main point made by the accounts as a whole is that all the sciences derive originally from the Avesta, i.e., the Zoroastrian canon, and that their preservation, collection, and promulgation are due to the Sasanians and most prominently to Ardašīr I, Sābūr I, and Chosroes I Anūširwān. This view, which was widespread in the first ‘Abbāsid century and can be witnessed in a number of related works,26 also found expression, at what may be considered a popular level, in the belief that Zoroaster himself was the author of all existing sciences and that he wrote them in all the languages of the world...

What all three versions agree in conveying, moreover, is that any Greek book is by definition part of the Zoroastrian canon since it was Alexander’s pillage of Iran that caused these books to be known among the Greeks; and hence its translation and study would mean recovering the ancient Persian knowledge. ”

Excerpt From: Gutas, Dimitri. “Greek Thought, Arabic Culture.”


Does anyone know if this is still a contemporary belief, that Zoroaster was the author of all existing sciences and thus any foreign scientific text is ultimately the recovering of Persian knowledge, or is it more tied to Sassanian political ideology than Zoroastrian belief?
 

matthew_/!/

Member
“The account of the origins and transmission of knowledge and the sciences as depicted in the combined reports is clear. Zoroaster received from Ohrmazd the Good God the texts of the Avesta, which include all knowledge (§1). The destruction wrought upon Persia by Alexander the Great, however, caused these texts to be dispersed throughout the world (§2). The Greeks and the Egyptians derived their knowledge from these Zoroastrian texts which Alexander had translated into Greek and Coptic (§3). Subsequently Sasanian emperors took it upon themselves to collect all these texts and the knowledge that was derived from them from the various places where they had been scattered (§§6–7): the sources name India and Byzantium, and Abū-Sahl adds China... ...


Does anyone know if this is still a contemporary belief, that Zoroaster was the author of all existing sciences and thus any foreign scientific text is ultimately the recovering of Persian knowledge, or is it more tied to Sassanian political ideology than Zoroastrian belief?

I have not heard of this belief but it sounds like it would be influenced from the ideolistic views of the Sassanid Empire rather than an original belief of Zoroastrianism, as arguing that all scientific text ties back to Persian knowledge would be easily refutable.
 
Top