Ask Me Anything 2.0!

[Exaltist Ethan]

... but not about why it hooks people.

People join a religion for the same reason they join any organization. They want to feel involved and be part of a community.

When I joined my Unitarian chapter I ended up going to Sunday services, and participating in YANKS and Chalice Circles while I lived in Milwaukee's east side. I still remember the times we'd offer each other hands as we did congratulation ceremonies. Despite the individualism of western society it does feel good to be part of something larger than yourself. Even an atheist like you could be a Unitarian by the modern sense of the term. UUism as it is designed today is supposed to be a religion without walls, and I also know you are politically progressive, and would uphold UUs own progressive values.

When I joined the Baha'i Faith I found out that there were about 500 Baha'is around Milwaukee, but only one-tenth of them, or fifty, were active. Despite having very spiritual roots, I find the Baha'i Faith in general to be kind of a DIY religion, especially since how their prophet often stressed the "personal investigation of truth", well, as long as it doesn't break what the Baha'is already know and understand about God. Baha'is in my area often meet in libraries and in public parks, and often read scripture and try to help each other understand the full context of what Baha'u'llah was trying to convey.

I am now a lapsed member of both religions, although I often get both Unitarian and Baha'i material sent to me through the mail, because I am a member of both. I've tried to contact the official Earthseed organization, but unfortunately, there hasn't been any formal declaration that I belong to that organization. Yet still, I am RF's leading Earthseed advocate, often preaching and advocating for pantheism and syntheism. So, even though I've never undergone any formal recognition of such, my heart, body and soul is much more part of Earthseed and what it represents to me than the other two religions.

So yes, I am a lapsed member of two religions, Unitarian Universalism, and the Baha'i Faith, but I actively engage with and practice Earthseed, and have since I was 14. Had I know about Earthseed before the other two religions, I most likely would have never joined the other two. The other two were just there as placeholders until I found a religion that I happened to actually agree with.

... and here we are, finally. It wasn't until my 30s that I discovered Earthseed, but now that I found that other people came to the same realizations as me, I'm never turning away from it. Finally, I discovered an organization that believes the same core values as me.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have the impression you used to be a Muslim. Is that correct? If so, how hard has it been to become an atheist in country like Egypt?

 

[ChristineM]

People join a religion for the same reason they join any organization. They want to feel involved and be part of a community.

When I joined my Unitarian chapter I ended up going to Sunday services, and participating in YANKS and Chalice Circles while I lived in Milwaukee's east side. I still remember the times we'd offer each other hands as we did congratulation ceremonies. Despite the individualism of western society it does feel good to be part of something larger than yourself. Even an atheist like you could be a Unitarian by the modern sense of the term. UUism as it is designed today is supposed to be a religion without walls, and I also know you are politically progressive, and would uphold UUs own progressive values.

When I joined the Baha'i Faith I found out that there were about 500 Baha'is around Milwaukee, but only one-tenth of them, or fifty, were active. Despite having very spiritual roots, I find the Baha'i Faith in general to be kind of a DIY religion, especially since how their prophet often stressed the "personal investigation of truth", well, as long as it doesn't break what the Baha'is already know and understand about God. Baha'is in my area often meet in libraries and in public parks, and often read scripture and try to help each other understand the full context of what Baha'u'llah was trying to convey.

I am now a lapsed member of both religions, although I often get both Unitarian and Baha'i material sent to me through the mail, because I am a member of both. I've tried to contact the official Earthseed organization, but unfortunately, there hasn't been any formal declaration that I belong to that organization. Yet still, I am RF's leading Earthseed advocate, often preaching and advocating for pantheism and syntheism. So, even though I've never undergone any formal recognition of such, my heart, body and soul is much more part of Earthseed and what it represents to me than the other two religions.

So yes, I am a lapsed member of two religions, Unitarian Universalism, and the Baha'i Faith, but I actively engage with and practice Earthseed, and have since I was 14. Had I know about Earthseed before the other two religions, I most likely would have never joined the other two. The other two were just there as placeholders until I found a religion that I happened to actually agree with.

... and here we are, finally. It wasn't until my 30s that I discovered Earthseed, but now that I found that other people came to the same realizations as me, I'm never turning away from it. Finally, I discovered an organization that believes the same core values as me.

There ya go, I've learned something new. Earthseed, I'd never heard of. Thanks

 

[Debater Slayer]

May your future present be just as good

Thanks!

That's a shame, one day perhaps...

In hindsight, it was for the best. I'm in no rush to get into a relationship either; I have several priorities above that.

I've been to the bible belt usa for a couple of weeks and it felt like i had a neon "ATHEIST" sign hanging around my kneck. That must have not only been difficult but so scary.

It was quite scary, and it happened around the time that Hamza Kashgari and Raif Badawi both grappled with the possibility of receiving the death penalty in Saudi Arabia for "apostasy" and "blasphemy." I had some sleepless nights (literally).

Can i ask, what religion did you leave behind?

Islam.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Since you are from Egypt I am curious if it is a very hot place and if you are more resistant to heat exhaustion than Europeans? I am mostly English, Scottish and Irish; and I don't do well in heat. I can handle sunlight and can tan well, however I sweat too much and get very tired in the heat. I have found that men from Mexico seem better equipped to deal with it. What about Egyptians?

We're used to heat; we have a lot of summer days in the 40s Celsius (that's 104+ in Fahrenheit). People from Upper Egypt are especially used to it due to living in the hottest parts of the country.

I can handle heat even into the 50s (122+ degrees for Americans); it's severe cold that gets me.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I have the impression you used to be a Muslim. Is that correct? If so, how hard has it been to become an atheist in country like Egypt?

Yes, that's correct.

It's been very hard and not without significant challenges to safety and belonging in society, but it's not as dangerous as it was in Saudi Arabia. I'm still planning to emigrate as soon as I can.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I must admit, I find it odd that as an admin of forum called Religious Forums you are decisively non-religious. But then again, there's a lot of members here who are completely non-religious and don't belong to any religious organization and don't believe in God either. Some of the forums most prominent members, like @Evangelicalhumanist , @ChristineM and @Revoltingest are among the top people who post here and have absolutely no religious affiliation.

I find that interesting.

Why? Religion, because so many people are believers, affects us all. Why do you think the non-relgious would be uninterested in something that has important and broad effects on many areas of life -- for the religious and the non-religious.

I happen to be a gay man (too old for anybody to care now) who for most of his life had religious faiths try to keep me silent and invisible. Do you think I should have let them?

Many women in urgent need of medical care in matters concerning procreation are being denied it -- because religious believers have never stopped trying to force them to behave as their religious beliefs dictate. Should they simply say, "Oh, okay, you believe that so I guess I'd better just get on with having my rapists baby, or dying because my doctor is afraid to help me in case he's accused of abetting an abortion?"

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Why? Religion, because so many people are believers, affects us all. Why do you think the non-relgious would be uninterested in something that has important and broad effects on many areas of life -- for the religious and the non-religious.

I happen to be a gay man (too old for anybody to care now) who for most of his life had religious faiths try to keep me silent and invisible. Do you think I should have let them?

Many women in urgent need of medical care in matters concerning procreation are being denied it -- because religious believers have never stopped trying to force them to behave as their religious beliefs dictate. Should they simply say, "Oh, okay, you believe that so I guess I'd better just get on with having my rapists baby, or dying because my doctor is afraid to help me in case he's accused of abetting an abortion?"

Well let's see....

I mention @Revoltingest , @ChristineM and @Evangelicalhumanist in the same post.

Revoltingest compliments me for calling him "prominent".
Christine explains how should found RF and why she still posts.
And EvangelicalHumanist explains why religion is important to him.

Yep. Typical posts from typical members on this forum. None of these responses surprise me in the slightest.

Yes, EvangelicalHumanist, I know that religion is important, and affects our daily lives. But my parents, a man and a woman, are also atheists, and they never bring up religious topics to me. And if I bring it up their unassuming tone shuts me down right away. Some atheists and irreligious folk do think that religion is important, but many don't, including my parents, who would never post here in a million years... Not to mention the fact that my parents aren't community driven at the least.

I get it, you have an opinion that you want to share. That's why you call yourself "Evangelical Humanist" and I call myself, "Exaltist Ethan", but not everybody has one, or is too apathetic to share it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well let's see....

I mention @Revoltingest , @ChristineM and @Evangelicalhumanist in the same post.

Revoltingest compliments me for calling him "prominent".
Christine explains how should found RF and why she still posts.
And EvangelicalHumanist explains why religion is important to him.

Yep. Typical posts from typical members on this forum. None of these responses surprise me in the slightest.

Yes, EvangelicalHumanist, I know that religion is important, and affects our daily lives. But my parents, a man and a woman, are also atheists, and they never bring up religious topics to me. And if I bring it up their unassuming tone shuts me down right away. Some atheists and irreligious folk do think that religion is important, but many don't, including my parents, who would never post here in a million years... Not to mention the fact that my parents aren't community driven at the least.

I get it, you have an opinion that you want to share. That's why you call yourself "Evangelical Humanist" and I call myself, "Exaltist Ethan", but not everybody has one, or is too apathetic to share it.

You are looking at the world from your own, very narrow viewpoint. What your parents talk about, or my personal opinions, are not the whole world. You should spend some time considering the many, many different human behaviours based on wildly different belief systems.

Religion leads some people to mutilate their own sons' penises shortly after birth -- and some other religious beliefs lead some to do the same to their daughters (check out the story of Ayaan Hirsi Ali), usually later, when it'll be really, really painful!

Beliefs that are based on ignorance and mythology can lead to very strange things indeed. Go to YouTube and check out a documentary called "Guardians of the Flutes." (I'm not including a link -- I don't want to tempt you too much to go where you'd rather not.)

What we humans believe has led us to endless wars, to horrendous torture and killing of our own kind, to atrocities that are not suitable for describing here. But what we humans believe is exactly what makes us humans. And my question is -- can we become a better species, more deserving of our beautiful planet (and more likely to be its saviours), if we learn to think better and believe (without or contrary to evidence) much less.

And that's my mission here.

What's yours?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well let's see....

I mention @Revoltingest , @ChristineM and @Evangelicalhumanist in the same post.

Revoltingest compliments me for calling him "prominent".
Christine explains how should found RF and why she still posts.
And EvangelicalHumanist explains why religion is important to him.

Yep. Typical posts from typical members on this forum. None of these responses surprise me in the slightest.

Yes, EvangelicalHumanist, I know that religion is important, and affects our daily lives. But my parents, a man and a woman, are also atheists, and they never bring up religious topics to me. And if I bring it up their unassuming tone shuts me down right away. Some atheists and irreligious folk do think that religion is important, but many don't, including my parents, who would never post here in a million years... Not to mention the fact that my parents aren't community driven at the least.

I get it, you have an opinion that you want to share. That's why you call yourself "Evangelical Humanist" and I call myself, "Exaltist Ethan", but not everybody has one, or is too apathetic to share it.

You are looking at the world from your own, very narrow viewpoint. What your parents talk about, or my personal opinions, are not the whole world. You should spend some time considering the many, many different human behaviours based on wildly different belief systems.

Religion leads some people to mutilate their own sons' penises shortly after birth -- and some other religious beliefs lead some to do the same to their daughters (check out the story of Ayaan Hirsi Ali), usually later, when it'll be really, really painful!

Beliefs that are based on ignorance and mythology can lead to very strange things indeed. Go to YouTube and check out a documentary called "Guardians of the Flutes." (I'm not including a link -- I don't want to tempt you too much to go where you'd rather not.)

What we humans believe has led us to endless wars, to horrendous torture and killing of our own kind, to atrocities that are not suitable for describing here. But what we humans believe is exactly what makes us humans. And my question is -- can we become a better species, more deserving of our beautiful planet (and more likely to be its saviours), if we learn to think better and believe (without or contrary to evidence) much less.

And that's my mission here.

What's yours?

Guys, please remember that this is not a debate thread. Let's keep it on topic.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Guys, please remember that this is not a debate thread. Let's keep it on topic.

Apologies -- I did not notice. I withdraw my comments.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

@Debater Slayer

I'm trying to work out something or things to ask you a little outside the expected.
Lessee...

How much of your understanding of western society is gained from exposure to US and UK cultures, and of this, how much is direct vs how much is media based?

The rationale in asking is that many in the 'West' have a media driven understanding of the Arab world, and one which lacks nuanced understanding of different time periods or countries within that world, instead treating them as homogenous.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

How do you have a subjective purpose? That seems self contradictory to me.

I know this wasn't directed at me, and it's not a debate thread, but in the interests of shared understanding...

From an atheists point of view you have a subjective purpose, and it provides meaning to your life.

I get that it's objective to you, and not arguing that. Just explaining how the world looks from an atheist perspective.

Linking @Debater Slayer in the hopes my explanation isn't too tangential.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well let's see....

I mention @Revoltingest , @ChristineM and @Evangelicalhumanist in the same post.

Revoltingest compliments me for calling him "prominent".
Christine explains how should found RF and why she still posts.
And EvangelicalHumanist explains why religion is important to him.

Yep. Typical posts from typical members on this forum. None of these responses surprise me in the slightest.

Yes, EvangelicalHumanist, I know that religion is important, and affects our daily lives. But my parents, a man and a woman, are also atheists, and they never bring up religious topics to me. And if I bring it up their unassuming tone shuts me down right away. Some atheists and irreligious folk do think that religion is important, but many don't, including my parents, who would never post here in a million years... Not to mention the fact that my parents aren't community driven at the least.

I get it, you have an opinion that you want to share. That's why you call yourself "Evangelical Humanist" and I call myself, "Exaltist Ethan", but not everybody has one, or is too apathetic to share it.

Religion is not to be discussed with everyone.
Tis good that you have RF instead of your parents for that.

 

[Alien826]

This is a very complex topic that a single post probably won't do justice, but I believe our circumstances and biology shape our desires and what we find intellectually and ethically convincing. Could you or I will ourselves into believing the Earth is flat, for example? There are people who believe that, and they find the conspiracy theories about NASA and satellite imagery convincing. Could they will themselves out of their conviction any more than you or I could will ourselves into it? I don't think so, and that's one of the many issues I see with the concept of free will.

A quote I came across recently struck me as quite profound yet succinct: "You can do as you wish, but you cannot wish as you wish." I replied to your post because I wanted to, but I couldn't make myself hate this forum at will. Something would have to influence my thinking and emotions in that direction, and since we also don't choose what convinces us, the whole notion of "choice" becomes meaninglessly nebulous at best to me.

Thanks. I won't respond as it will, as you say, go on and on and probably deserves another thread, if at all as the subject has been debated to death already.

 

[Debater Slayer]

@Debater Slayer

I'm trying to work out something or things to ask you a little outside the expected.
Lessee...

How much of your understanding of western society is gained from exposure to US and UK cultures, and of this, how much is direct vs how much is media based?

I'm not sure what you mean by "exposure": whether living in the US/UK, which I haven't done, or knowing people from there and reading or learning about each culture both from natives and from sources other than the media (e.g., academic articles, personal blogs, immigrant stories, following up with politics, etc.), which I have done.

As a rule of thumb, I regard most media as an unreliable source to learn from about other cultures. I had a sort of culture shock when I first joined this forum and realized that my preconceptions about people from the Western world were largely inaccurate and unnuanced.

The rationale in asking is that many in the 'West' have a media driven understanding of the Arab world, and one which lacks nuanced understanding of different time periods or countries within that world, instead treating them as homogenous.

I also find this to be the case for a lot of Arabs and understanding of the Western world. Unfortunately, Western entertainment media don't help at all in this regard with their exaggerated, overgeneralized, and sometimes idealized depictions of their respective societies.

 

[JustGeorge]

As a rule of thumb, I regard most media as an unreliable source to learn from about other cultures. I had a sort of culture shock when I first joined this forum and realized that my preconceptions about people from the Western world were largely inaccurate and unnuanced.

What were some of those preconceptions?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I know this wasn't directed at me, and it's not a debate thread, but in the interests of shared understanding...

From an atheists point of view you have a subjective purpose, and it provides meaning to your life.

I get that it's objective to you, and not arguing that. Just explaining how the world looks from an atheist perspective.

Linking @Debater Slayer in the hopes my explanation isn't too tangential.

It isn't! It's basically how I see things as well.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What were some of those preconceptions?

I was very conservative at the time, so I assumed that I, a religiously conservative Arab, would be poorly received among a group of people largely hailing from the Western world. I was also surprised to see that there was a significant diversity of opinions on some issues and that the majority didn't neatly agree on everything, such as LGBT rights, evolution, gender equality, etc.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not sure what you mean by "exposure": whether living in the US/UK, which I haven't done, or knowing people from there and reading or learning about each culture both from natives and from sources other than the media (e.g., academic articles, personal blogs, immigrant stories, following up with politics, etc.), which I have done.

Your answer was great, and no need to go further. But just to clarify what I meant...

Direct exposure would be first hand. Living in the country would count, but direct relationships with people from those countries count too.
I'd rate RL relationships as 'direct', and not online ones, more just because of the amount of filtering present.

Indirect is more Western music, movies, forums like this, etc, or local sources discussing the US, UK, etc.

So you pretty much guessed my intent anyway.