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Arguments for Atheism

Viviane LaFrance

Viviane LaFrance

Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Atheism and theism form a MECE set: every person belongs to exactly one of the categories
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There are no either/or proposition when you deal with unknowable or fuzzy concepts. I think both theists and atheists are wrong in thinking there can be. It is like we are dealing with the proposition X and the possibilities are one either agrees with X exist or one does not. We don't even know what X is, so how is it logical to debate whether X exists or not? It is best just say to it is unknowable and nothing more.

Nobody can define what "god" means?

Fair enough, but all the more reason to consider you an atheist: we can't believe that which we can't conceive. Anyone who considers "god" so vague that we can't even evaluate the statement "a god exists" is necessarily an atheist.
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Not necessarily so, that person is most likely an agnostic.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Viviane LaFrance said:
There are no either/or proposition when you deal with unknowable or fuzzy concepts. I think both theists and atheists are wrong in thinking there can be.
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No, you're wrong in attributing positions to atheists that they don't necessarily hold.

It is like we are dealing with the proposition X and the possibilities are one either agrees with X exist or one does not. We don't even know what X is, so how is it logical to debate whether X exists or not? It is best just say to it is unknowable and nothing more.
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Please actually read what I'm saying for once:

We aren't evaluating whether a god or gods exist. We're evaluating whether we accept any gods as existing.

Not necessarily so.
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If you know of a way to conceive of a thing as true or false while not being able to conceive of the thing at all, I'd love to hear how you did it.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Viviane LaFrance said:
I am just curious. Isn't any reason why you don't believe in gods? And why do you go on the internet to defend and advocate for atheism if it isn't a position that people take?
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I’m not sure the absence of belief is a position. But whether it is or is not, i do not see why that should be a barrier to discussing a topic.

I don’t believe in green men from Mars, but that should not bar me from discussing the topic with those that might.
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Altfish said:
We do not know. I believe it was natural, but I don't know.
Why would it make any sense that it was caused by a 'thing'?
The problem with w 'thing' is...what caused the 'thing'?
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Excellent!
And so the question begs, 'Was there a reason for what caused the Big Bang?
Yes, or No?
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Viviane LaFrance said:
Not anymore, your definition of the word renders the term meaningless since it makes it the default position of every man, woman and child and gerbil and goldfish on the planet.
- do you agree that theists aren’t atheists?
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Nope, a theism is now impossible since everyone and everything in the entire universe is now atheist. If atheism is merely lacking belief in gods then the most strident Bible thumping Christian is now a atheist because he lacks belief in Zeus.[/QUOTE]

Not true, if he believes in Zues, he believes in a god snd is a theist. He may be atheistic towards other gods, however.
 
Viviane LaFrance

Viviane LaFrance

Member
Milton Platt said:
I’m not sure the absence of belief is a position. But whether it is or is not, i do not see why that should be a barrier to discussing a topic.

I don’t believe in green men from Mars, but that should not bar me from discussing the topic with those that might.
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It's not the same. Green men for Mars is defined. We know what green is, we know what the term "men" means and we know about Mars. The concept of god is not defined. It is an unknowable, it is X. I discuss X unless I know the other variables and possibilities regarding X. Since X in unknowable, X becomes irrelevant.
 
Viviane LaFrance

Viviane LaFrance

Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I haven't been convinced of any.


I don't "defend and advocate for atheism" and I'm not sure why you would assume that I do.
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I am not trying to be difficult or obtuse with you but both the positions of atheism and theism are very perplexing to me. To tell you the truth I am an agnostic who has some very, very, very strong apatheist tendencies. The whole concept of god is irrelevant to me as well as the debate whether god exist or not or the question whether one should believe that god exist. God is a fuzzy concept. Like the Buddha taught : The concept of god is a distraction and so is the question as to whether god does not or does exist. It is just irrelevant if god does or doesn't. Neither Atheism nor theism is going to make a person more moral, neither will they make a person more happier or fulfill a persons life. Both are irrelevant because the concept they are discussing is irrelevant. We have no idea what X is, so why is X even part of the equation?
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
oldbadger said:
Excellent!
And so the question begs, 'Was there a reason for what caused the Big Bang?
Yes, or No?
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I'm sorry if you struggle with my first answer, but I'm going to repeat myself, "I DON'T KNOW"
It is the honest answer and one that keeps scientists motivated the world over.
 
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