1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Are You Glad the IQ Morality Tests Presented by Yeshua in the Bible is Too Complex for Most?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Mar 14, 2020.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Since most Christians follow 'j+sēs' - יסס, which is prophesied in Isaiah 51:6-8 to be contrasting the words of Yeshua; we can clearly show Christianity is an elaborate prophesied test, created by the Pharisees John, Paul, and Simon the Stumbling Stone (peter).

    Christianity was first created in Antioch (Acts 11:25-26), overwriting the real followers of Yeshua, 'The Followers of the Way' or Ebionites.

    Therefore since we can show logically that these texts are a purposeful contradiction: then both Baha'i and Rabbinic Judaism have completely misunderstood the texts; as instead of realize the test as stated in both the Quran and Bible, they go against it.

    We have Rabbinic Jews arguing Messianic prophecy hasn't happened yet, as they follow Christianity's understanding of 'jesus', which is all made up on purpose. :confused:

    We have Baha'i confirming the false texts of the Pharisees, which are Antichrist's teachings, as Baha'u'llah clearly wasn't what he claimed. :confused:

    Though Islam were informed it is a test, most have rejected reading the Bible, and so don't actually understand they're meant to be educating people about it in detail; not arguing it is all false, as they can't be bothered to study it. :oops:

    The 2nd incarnation of the Saoshyant in Zoroastrianism was expected by the Wiseman, which is why they came to meet Yeshua with the customary gold, frankincense, and myrrh; this again explains it is a test on mankind, with a conclusion at the end.

    Dharmic religions relate the Divine coming down here in form is contextual, and there is clear Dharmic ideas that there is a time of testing, with the removal of the Ravenous Demons at the end of the age.

    Ultimately I should be happy that this test is so precise across the world's religious texts, and that it catches out all the hypocrites; yet isn't the point of religion to bring everyone to understanding, not just to destroy people for being stupid? :oops:

    Which is where I'm not glad this is happening, as most of you think you're saved for going against the test, and therefore it is like living near Hell, as it is a morality IQ test people have failed; which shows us the world is an evil place, with people who don't think logically... :(

    Yet if the test exists, the texts show evidence, why can't we educate people to understand this basic legal examination paper; surely if something can be shown morally, and objectively, people can be educated about it? o_O

    If people understood the morality IQ test of the Bible properly, wouldn't the world become a less hypocritical place, more capable of recognizing their own moral errors? :star:

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,155
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    God makes it clear in the scriptures that no one is good. No one seeks God. No one understands. All are corrupted and have gone out of the way. Only the unmerited favor/love of God saves anyone. Everyone (without God) is blind and wandering around. So we all fail the morality IQ test.
     
    #2 74x12, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,298
    Ratings:
    +18,209
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    I take exception to your arrogance in speaking for me. Please speak for yourself. Don't speak for others you do not know.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  4. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    13,174
    Ratings:
    +4,253
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    How many fictional books have you written? ;)
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    It is Paul who said that; not God... God tries to turn all to righteousness; not leave them sinning.

    Psalms 14:1-3 For the Chief Musician. By David. The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt. They have done abominable deeds. There is no one who does good. (2) the Lord looked down from heaven on the children of men, to see if there were any who understood, who sought after God. (3) They have all gone aside. They have together become corrupt. There is no one who does good, no, not one.
    Actually being righteous saves us, Yeshua taught we are judged by our works; it was Paul who made it all a cult about faith in the death of Christ.
    The Source of reality is manifesting all of us right now, and thus it tries to guide all of us to it; no one is without God, that is a dumb Pharisaic idea about theology, that Paul taught Christians.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  6. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    The idea you think religion is made up globally, is a bit of a long stretch.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    13,174
    Ratings:
    +4,253
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I don't think that at all

    It's this story that made me wonder :)
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Then why would you assume what I put as being highly logical, is in some way made up..
    This is based on a logical appraisal of the text:

    Basically when Yeshua warns 'not to store your treasure where moth (sēs) and rust do decay, and corrupt (Luke 12:33-34)'; the word sēs is direct from the Hebrew (G4597 = H5580), they didn't translate a word they could have, as it is symbolism.

    Isaiah 51:8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the grub (j+sēs - יסס) shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation (Yeshua) to all generations.

    Moses renamed Hosea son of Nun, to Yehoshua son of Nun, the additional yod, implies he 'Shall + be savoir' or the new word makes the 'Lord Saves'.

    When we add an additional yod onto the word sēs, it makes it mean 'it Shall + tear away' or 'it Shall + trample down'.

    Yeshua said that "the time of the Gentiles shall trample down" (Luke 21:24), the name 'j+sēs' is clear symbolism of that meaning.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #8 wizanda, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  9. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,852
    Ratings:
    +6,405
    Religion:
    None
    If the world adopted biblical morality, it would be a worse place. That moral system is highly flawed. It commands us to submit to earthly authorities simply because they are in power. America would not have rebelled against a despotic king had it heeded those words.

    Biblical morality doesn't recognize that slavery is immoral. It doesn't recognize democracy, free citizens, church-state separation, freedom of and from religion, or guaranteed personal rights.

    I'm not looking for anybody to tell me how to live. There is nobody I would follow, including Jesus. My moral values don't come from any authority other than my own conscience and what reason applied to its messages suggest is optimal behavior.

    By way of contrast, I feel an affinity for many if not most of the teachings of Buddha. However, I didn't acquire those ideas there.

    And I find the values expressed in the Affirmations of Humanism, also not a source for me, fit perfectly.

    Here's another Christian value I reject. There is no reason to believe that this god exists, or that anybody needs saving from it. There are good people, and who is blinder than the one willing to believe by faith?
    • "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)
    These are not my values, and I consider them flawed. I consider that position highly immoral, and offer it as an example of the danger of faith-based thought.

    What's a long stretch is to believe is that any of the religions are not human inventions. Since they contradict one another, at most one can be correct. So the question becomes where one or no religions are true religions and not just human contrivances.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,155
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    It might seem arrogant. But I believe it regardless. You're like me. Gone out of the way. Lost and wandering.

    Respectfully; because you say you see; that means you are still blind according to my belief.
     
  11. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,155
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Yes God wants to turn all to righteousness but who is really just when compared to God?

    Everyone is a fool to God who knows all things. And they must learn to become wise. If you want to be wise the place to start is by first becoming a fool. That is to know yourself for what you really are and then you can begin to learn wisdom.

    In fact the scripture says there is more hope for a fool than for someone wise in their own conceit. So what it means is it's better to be a fool and realize it; than to be a fool and think you are wise. Because one is teachable and the other is not.

    This is why Jesus said blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness ... but He also said "woe unto those who are full now".

    So it's better to be a fool and know it. It's better to be hungry, thirsty. It's better to know yourself as evil and try to do right anyway.
    And you're righteousness? I am not. If you say you are righteous then that is in itself unrighteousness. Pride is the most deceptive vice in the world because it blinds people to the truth.
    Even though God were closer to us than the breath in our nostrils; that doesn't mean He is near our hearts. Because God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. It has always been so.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,298
    Ratings:
    +18,209
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    You're free to believe whatever you want to believe, but that's not how you presented your statement.

    [​IMG]

    That's kinda my point. I never said anything about seeing anything. You made an unfounded assumption. :)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,155
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    All things known by the human mind are beliefs. A belief is just whatever you've been convinced to accept as true. Either by evidence or persuasion or just intuition.

    It's a metaphor. To say you see means you're satisfied with your own knowledge and your own righteousness. You don't need anyone or anything because you "see" already.

    So then tell me. Are you, or are you not lost and wandering? Are you or are you not righteous and completely just?

    You memed "Since you clearly know so much about me, tell me more about me"

    Firstly, I know/believe this about all humans. Aren't you human?

    Secondly, the fact is that many people have blind spots. A metaphor is that you can't even see your own face without aid of some kind; such as a mirror.

    Therefore, isn't it wise to understand the limits of your own understanding?
     
  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,294
    Ratings:
    +1,155
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    If the whole world is deceived and incapable of finding the truth. If they are in fact already blind and believe they see ... then the wisest people are the ones who 1. realize they are blind(which ironically is to admit you're not wise) and 2. seek for a guide because they are blind or better yet some kind of healing for their eyes.

    So, just as blind people put faith/trust in their guides; so is this life. Faith is the only logical choice.
     
  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,256
    Ratings:
    +4,919
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    Follow? Meh, I wouldn't call it that. More like, in-universe arguing. It's like arguing in any sort of fandom, based on the rules of that fictional concept. Like, "based on what DC has told us about Superman, can he fly to Krypton without taking a break?" - and then people argue on that.

    Based on what Christians tell us about Jesus, we argue on that. We have our own version of Jesus, though, some ex-rabbinical-student bloke named Yeshu.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,782
    Ratings:
    +2,141
    Re: Yeshu
    I just googled it and was surprised to find so may Yeshus.
    Of course, what I thought it meant was not mentioned there and what I thought was....oops there goes my memory again. <cannot find an appropriate emoji>
     
  17. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,256
    Ratings:
    +4,919
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    Christians have at least 4 versions, too.
     
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    No, lets stop the insanity between us!!

    There is not versions of the name, this is from Ancient Hebrew, the language is pictographic, adding additional symbolism changes contexts, different pronunciations changes context.
    'jesus' is basically an insult word in Hebrew found in Isaiah 51:8; the idea they're stupid, and you're trying to go below them isn't Jewish...

    As the person provable as the Messiah sent from Heaven, I want to fix this, and if you're the smartest people, be the teachers; stop trying to be the class-clowns, as you're not that good at it.
    This topic about Yeshu is created by Rabbi purely to argue with Christians as prophesied (Deuteronomy 32:21); people who believe these things are about to be exterminated by the Source of reality according to the Torah (Deuteronomy 32:15-22).

    If we analyse the Tanakh, the Rabbi have defiled the very spirit of Salvation (Yeshua - H3444); they don't understand prophecy, and have then lied to everyone as prophesied in Zechariah 11:15-17... Where they put the Messiah to death for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12-14), divorcing Israel, and Breaking the Abrahamic Covenant (Zechariah 11:10), and then tried to cover it up by making up Christianity (Ezekiel 20:3).

    According to prophecy the Rabbi/Zionism trying to take back Jerusalem, thinking it holds power (Zechariah 12:1-6); yet being blinded to (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29) that they are under the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28), and are about to be washed in Fire, for going against the things of God (Deuteronomy 29:19-27).

    Ezekiel 38:8-12 is the Zionist coming against Jerusalem, and then the Fire and Brimstone is seen in Deuteronomy 29:23, Isaiah 30:33, Isaiah 34:9, Ezekiel 38:22.

    In Ezekiel 20 we can see an account of the whole of Israelite history; in Ezekiel 20:33-48 Israel has been brought back to the land to be burned, and then after we shall come to the Messianic Age with those who accepted Yeshua (Salvation) as the Messiah, as it is a test to see if they accept the Testimony of the Lord (Isaiah 8:11-22).

    We can prove I'm the return of King David (Zechariah 7:10), with the new name Zan/Zion Da (To Know the Flock), who came as Yehoshua (H3091) or Yeshua (H3444); not Yeshu, as that tries to defile why Moses changed Hosea son of Nun, to Yehoshua.

    Basically the Yeshu ideologies are created by Rabbi, to make him into a Scapegoat, that he was the bad man for making things happen to Jews; which in reality is the opposite, that because the Rabbi chose to put the Messiah to death, and then lied about it to everyone globally, they've caused Israel to be cut off. :eek:

    Whereas Yeshua was the spirit of Yahavah placed into King David, and called Yehoshua as prophesied as a branch of Israel (Genesis 49:10 - Genesis 49-18). :cool:

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  19. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,421
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Clearly didn't understand the OP or even the title; the Bible is an "IQ morality test", and it is an exact opposite in places of morality, to help us learn from the contrasts.

    The Bible informs us we are in an evil world currently, where horrific things happen, and then people only calling it a "good book" are evil, as the book says we're down near Hell, and some of those who claim they follow it, then have the audacity to call themselves saints.
    From the OP I stated about Dharmic ideas of Divine Beings coming down here should be respected, as Yeshua's, Buddha's, Krishna's, Lao Tzu's teachings are one...

    The false cults that were made up about these people are the problem, basically the world is divided by religions, which are formed by group mentalities; in comparison to understanding that religion is all from the One same Source of reality.
    In Hindu, Zoroastrian, Moses's, David's, Isaiah's (Tanakh), Yeshua's texts, there is a Holy Quantum Fire coming that will wash this reality down to the base level; after only those who are spiritually evolved shall remain in an Age of Godliness...

    The reason Christians are partially right, is Yeshua came with the guest-list, as it is only by Salvation (H3444) that we have any hope of being welcome in the time to come; yet the metaphors have been turned into idolatry, where people instead worship some man-god called 'jesus'.
    Having studied many of the world's religions, we can go over why things contradict, and where there will always be an element of logic that has been missed, that clarifies where the Source of reality is One, and it is the people that become divided as they're not wise enough to see.

    We can show a prophetic line of ideas from Dharmic to Zoroastrian, to Hebraic, to Israelites, to Judaic...

    Which all explain a Snare on the world, where Islamic ideas try to correct Christianity back to Abrahamic ideas; whilst missing that some things were prophesied to be this way in Dharmic, and Zoroastrian ideas.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  20. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,256
    Ratings:
    +4,919
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    I object! Jewish humor is top-notch.
    I feel perfectly sane. How do you feel?
    Are you sure you know what pictographic means?
     
Loading...