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Featured Are You Glad the IQ Morality Tests Presented by Yeshua in the Bible is Too Complex for Most?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Mar 14, 2020.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry; Am not offended.

    As for Paul making his own church. I believe he made churches by direction from the holy Spirit which is an essential element to grasp of the new Testament.
    Scriptures are not easily understood. You really need the holy Spirit to understand. Our eyes are blinded and we can't see unless He opens our understanding in the scriptures.

    I believe it's not correct that they contradict; but go ahead and give me an example.
    In Isaiah 8:11-22 it is God Himself who was going to be a "stone of stumbling" to the house of Israel. This is Jesus who is a man that turns out to be God and which is quite unbelievable for many people so they stumble at it as well as other things about Him they can't believe easily.
     
  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeshua / Jesus Vs Saul / Paul Points

    If you see a link in the text, it often means I've explained the data required to understand what is being said.
    Simon was called a Stumbling Stone (petros) once by Yeshua (Matthew 16:18), and straight after he called him satan (Matthew 16:22-23), saying he follows the ways of man more than God, where he would establish a Church down near Hell.

    When Yeshua Cursed the Fig Tree, Simon started to praise him, and Yeshua tells him to have faith in the Source of reality (Mark 11:21-22); thus Yeshua warned him satan would use him (Luke 22:31-32).

    Isaiah 8:11-13, where Yeshua the Rock of Salvation called Simon the Stumbling Stone, this is prophesied in Zechariah 3:1-2 where satan rebukes Yeshua, and in Zechariah 3:9 Yeshua called Simon the Stone to fulfil the prophecy.

    It is like in the Parable of the Seed Sower (Matthew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, and Luke 8:4-15), the Seed that falls on Stony Ground is plural of petros.

    Simon the Stumbling Stone
    This is the topic of the thread, like some of these basics, such as the Gospel of John being a deliberate morality IQ exam, shows humanity isn't wise enough.

    Matthew, Mark, Luke Vs the Gospel of John

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  3. Theo102

    Theo102 Active Member

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    Paul's account in Acts 26 omits a detail that might suggest that being a chosen vessel wasn't a good thing for him, i.e that he was blinded.

    The stories line up in the sense that they appear to be an accurate account of what happened. It's wasn't the job of the writer of Acts to interpret the events.

    At least as far as that there's no reason to think that the writer is being dishonest. Paul's dishonesty is still the simplest explanation for the difference between what he said in Acts 26 and what was said previously.

    No, the principal allegation against Paul was that he argued "Let us do evil, that good may come", which he denied. His argument implies that lying isn't necessarily evil, which is true eg in the case of lying as a form of defence.

    No, there's an implied accusation that he was burdensome re "I did not burden you", but his admission of guile isn't related as far as I can tell.

    There's no church in the original text of Revelation 2:2. Ekklesia simply means gathering or congregation, and could apply to a church or to a synagogue. In context the people of Asia had rejected Paul, so it wouldn't be accurate to call them churches in the modern sense of the word.
     
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but I don't believe you understand Paul or Jesus and that is clear from your examples.
    I don't see where Jesus calls Simon a "stumbling" anything. Just Peter. Rock. But a rock can be a very good thing in the scriptures.

    As you see God Himself is called a Rock.
    The Messiah Himself is pictured as a Rock.
    Finally, the ministers of the gospel are predicted to be as a shadow of a rock in a weary land. That is they would provide shelter, shade and rest for the spiritually weary. They would be a hiding place for people who are suffering spiritually. Jesus is the King and His ministers are the princes. They rule in heaven by serving others on earth. They're servants of all. That includes Peter the "rock" and Paul and John.

    Isaiah 32:1-2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
    Lo, for righteousness doth a king reign, As to princes, for judgment they rule. And each hath been as a hiding-place [from] wind, And as a secret hiding-place [from] inundation, As rivulets of waters in a dry place, As a shadow of a heavy rock in a weary land.
    Yes, Peter was tested at the crucifixion and denied Jesus 3 times but don't ignore how in verse 32 Jesus makes it clear that Peter will turn out alright thanks to Jesus' prayer.
    Let's read Isaiah 8:13-15 then and understand what it literally says. It literally says that Jehovah will be a stone of stumbling and a rock of falling to the two houses of Israel. So, it's not about Peter at all. It's about Jesus because people don't believe in Him. But for some people He is a "sanctuary" so not all will fall because of Jesus.

    13 Jehovah of Hosts -- Him ye do sanctify, And He [is] your Fear, and He your Dread,
    14 And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the two houses of Israel, For a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
    15 And many among them have stumbled and fallen, And been broken, and snared, and captured.
    Jesus Himself is the Stone of stumbling because they(the builders) rejected Him. If they had not then they would not stumble.

    Matthew 21:42-43 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


    And those who hear the message but misunderstand; have the seed stolen from their hearts before it can grow fruit.

    There are 3 things:
    1. knowledge is unfruitful without understanding it.
    2. Understanding is also unfruitful if not put into practice.
    3. So wisdom(skill) is the ability to put into action what knowledge we have understood. So wisdom can be understood as fruitfulness.

    I say all that to show how you can hear the Word of God and it still won't bear fruit; because you don't understand or you don't do it or both.
    The gospel of John is the most spiritual of the 4 gospels. Set apart from the other 3 as God's pattern shows up in scriptures having time and time again. A group of 4 with 1 set apart. Not to put the other gospels down because they're excellent and spiritual. However, there is something different/special about John. You really can't understand it without the guidance of the holy Spirit.

    Indeed the book of John does seem to be a test but not what you think. That's why so many of His disciples left him because they didn't understand. So they said "This is a hard saying, who can hear it?" So don't be easily offended or turn away easily from the Word of God because sometimes it's hard to hear but it's worth it. The ones who stayed with Jesus did not understand either but they stayed because they knew Jesus well enough to trust Him regardless.

    Luke 8:18
    Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

    So, if we don't understand the scriptures than put them on the back burner and pray for understanding and then wait patiently for the truth to come to us. Because God is not mean or hard of heart towards us. He will hear and He will answer but to get to God you must go through wisdom. And wisdom is friends with patience so patience is necessary to hear from God. Many people make the mistake of misunderstanding scriptures and not seeking God for the answer because they want an answer right now. So they won't wait to hear from God. He who hurries with his feet sins.

    John 6:60-66
    60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
    61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
    62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Sorry this is eisegesis you're doing:
    If there are two words in Matthew 16:18, a small stone like a pebble, that can trip people up, and is found inside a field, a Stumbling Stone, petros, and then there is the Rock of Salvation (petra), which is a large body of Rock like a Cliff or a Foundation Stone.

    There are two words in Isaiah 8:14 Stumbling Stone (Negeph Eben), and Rock (Tzur).

    Yeshua is literally called the Rock of Salvation in Deuteronomy 32:15, Psalms 62:2, Psalms 62:6, Psalms 89:26.

    Symbolically 'Stumbling Stone' is used in Moses's Law, to imply laying bad teachings before the foolish (Leviticus 19:14, Deuteronomy 27:18).
    The type of rock referenced in Matthew 21:42-43 is a Lithos, which means a grinding stone.

    It is Paul (Romans 9:32-33), and Simon (1 Peter 2:8) who created Christianity the Antichrist Pharisee Cult, which stated Yeshua came as the Stumbling Stone; when Yeshua said it was the Pharisees with Simon being a Stumbling Stone in the Harvest (Luke 8:6), that will trip people up (Matthew 16:23).

    This is a perfect test to see who follows Pharisees, and not Yeshua.
    Actually read Isaiah 8:11-22, and understand those who make a 'covenant with death' (Isaiah 28:9-19), with the dead idol jesus in the grave; rather than the real wisdom within Yeshua's living Gospel, was that the Source of reality doesn't require sacrifice, and never has (Matthew 9:13, Hosea 6:6, Matthew 12:7), so someone demanding his blood is Antichrist by definition.
    If God wished he could turn rocks (Lithos) into worshippers (Matthew 3:9); it is about following Yeshua's Testimony - Which in Hebrew is Todah, like Torah, one letter difference.
    Do you really not get I'm literally sent from Heaven with the New Name of Christ before the Great Tribulation, and this is an explanation of the Judgement on Mankind's texts?

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #145 wizanda, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  6. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can easily look up "stone of stumbling" in Isaiah 8:14 and stumblingblock in Lev 19:14 and see for themselves they're different Hebrew words. So trying to connect them isn't working.
    Notice that Revelation 21:14 tells us that the new Jerusalem is founded on the 12 apostles? That would include Peter and John.
    I'm afraid you have the wrong idea of Christian beliefs ... Jesus isn't in the grave. He rose bodily alive on the 3rd day as the Word of Life was spoken (Psalm 133:3, 1 John 1:1) and then He ascended above all the highest heavens and He is sitting on the right hand of the power of God having all power in heaven and earth.

    Jesus didn't die for nothing. To me, He died to be victorious over death and to destroy the power of Satan. He is given all power because He's worthy and He overcame. Jesus is the Good Shepherd; He's able to find all the lost sheep who are wandering on the mountains and He gave His life for them; everyone of them.
    Do you really want my honest opinion on that claim?
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The term 'mikshôl' means a 'stumbling stone', this is translated by Isaiah as a two part word meaning the same thing.

    Jeremiah 6:21 explains the Lord is going to put a 'stumbling block' before Israel as they are a bunch of hypocrites, and in Ezekiel 14:4 it explains the Stumbling Block with teach idolatry, which Simon the Stumbling Stone (peter) did, turning Yeshua the Rock into the swearword 'jesus', not realizing the whole thing is a Snare from God to catch out the idolators in the Bed of Adultery.
    The Gospel of John is not recorded by John the Disciple who attended the Transfiguration, it has to be recorded by the Sanhedrin based on the information contained within it.

    Simon the Stumbling Stone (Zechariah 3), and Judas (Judah) fulfilled God's plan (Zechariah 11), and in their naivety, we can learn how to go the right way.

    If we do not respect the prophecies, and the symbolic naming; then we're missing the point of the Bible as an IQ morality test, and are evil by our very nature not to see it.
    Will you at least read the Bible before arguing you're allowed to be Antichrist; John, Paul, and Simon tell people we have to believe Christ died for us. :eek:

    I've spent 15 years discussing Christianity, and was raised in a large Christian family, I do understand the topic in advanced detail, and you're not studying what is being stated, you're assuming that you've got it right.

    The Bed of Adultery is Isaiah 28:9-19 - Rumour to Rumour, it explains it is a 'Bed' in verse 20, and in 21 'Adultery', like we find in Revelation 2:22.

    In the middle of the Sheets which are a 'Covenant with Death' disannulled, the Chief Corner Stone is there as a sacrifice in the middle, where it tells people 'not to make haste', yet spend time to understand it.

    People who've confused the teachings about Yeshua, and lie in a Bed were the Pharisees made a Covenant with Death, are about to be removed from reality, and the Messiah is sent (Isaiah 28:11-13) by the Source of reality as a Fig before summer (Isaiah 28:4) to warn people they've followed evil as good - which is the Parable of the Fig (Matthew 24:32-35, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33).

    In Isaiah 53:1 it links the contexts by the word 'Rumour', which is where Ezekiel prophesied 'Rumour upon Rumour, To Become what shall Become'.
    I'd like you to study the Bible else literally you will be removed from reality; prophecy relates anyone who doesn't listen to the Messiah gets removed, I don't mind if you don't listen, as currently your beliefs make me realize here is down near Hell.

    What don't you understand of prophecy, and we can debate it; I do not mind an honest answer, yet I will explain where it is illogical after?

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #148 wizanda, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  9. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Well you're right it is the same word now that I look at it. But, that doesn't really prove anything really.

    I don't believe you should ignore aspects of scripture that disagree with your view. You focus on how Jesus rebukes Peter and not how Jesus commends him. (Matthew 16:17) Secondly, I wouldn't ignore how Jesus says He prayed for Peter and Peter's faith would "fail not" and Peter would be "converted" in the end. (Luke 22:32)
    I can just say that it's a deep book. Spiritually discerned. We really need God's help to understand it. I would be a liar if I said I understood it at all without God's help. I'm nothing. God is faithful to help us understand the things He reveals if we hope in Him. God doesn't reveal the truth to the wise but to "babes". (Matthew 11:25)

    1 Corinthians 2:14
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    That's why people need the "Comforter" the "Spirit of truth" that Jesus sends. Without that we won't understand. Because these things are the things of God and not just profane or common writings. I hope you would consider this possibility.
    I just read and believe it as it is. Peter explains it best in 1 Peter 2:8. I believe God says that He will be the stumbling stone to the houses of Israel.

    As for Zech 11; clearly fulfilled by Judas Iscariot and the leaders of Israel. The high priest in particular.
    So if you read modern translations of "antichrist" it will mean "against Christ". But if you look at the literal Greek meaning of "anti" you see it can also mean "instead of" or "in place of" as well as meaning "against".

    So the spirit of antichrist wants to replace the real Christ. That's something a lot of people miss.
    I personally believe Isaiah 53 is a beautiful picture of the suffering of Christ. It is beautiful to me that Jesus as Shepherd cares for the sheep and carries their sorrows, their sickness and pain. He in love forgives sins and gave His own blood for it. I don't believe it's evil to think God died for me. I believe that since God chose it Himself; then it's very good of Him to do.

    So we have these immutable truths to consider:
    1. A true leader leads by example and Jesus certainly did that and refused not to die. Why did He refuse the legions of angels (Matthew 26:53) if He did not freely choose to die?
    2. A true love is shown in actions and not just words. And Jesus proved His love for us on the cross and that's amazing from where I stand.
    I have studied the Bible and I am open to learn new things and to even admit I'm wrong on some things. But what I have studied and the Spirit of God has shown me have proven to me that Jesus is God and He died for us and He rose from the dead and now He gives us he holy Spirit if we seek for this gift.

    Well you don't mind an honest answer. So, let me ask you something serious ... What would make you worthy to yourself and happy with yourself even if you weren't considering yourself the "Christ"? I believe you should ask yourself that and try to figure out for yourself what you can do for yourself. I know that God loves you; so it would be good for you to see yourself as God sees you. So do you really need to believe you are the "Christ" to continue to be worthy in your own eyes? Because I can assure you it's a lie of satan.

    The thief only comes to steal, kill and destroy ... but the good Shepherd comes that we might have life. That's the difference.

    If you knew what a broken person I am you might be surprised; but God is my helper. Thanks to God's grace and unmerited mercy I am not in some insane asylum or prison maybe. I don't know? But I find my own worth in the worth God places in me; rather than my own righteousness which is less than nothing. I know myself(I am evil) but I know whose I am. I belong to God. I still believe that in Him I am more than a conqueror despite my failures.

    Yes, satan has tried to destroy me with lies; but I'm still here. I believe that the world is under the spell of satan. He's a master tactician and he has everyone trapped in pits or in prison-houses. Everyone is naturally robbed and plundered. (spiritually speaking; Isaiah 42:22) I believe that there are traps everywhere and these are spiritual traps and he will make sure you fall down. That's why God chose the blood of Jesus. That's why God chose grace as the means of salvation because it's going to get messy and people will need to get cleaned up or they won't have a chance.
     
  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    John 10:10 is a made up Gospel claiming 'jesus' came to die as a human sacrifice, and accuses God of Premeditated Murder, where people deem it acceptable, when it is made up texts.

    It is like the Letters of John point at the Antichrist's teachings, when the Pharisee Cult by John, Paul, and Simon the Stumbling Stone are the Great Deception - it is the oldest distraction method in the book; point people to the exact opposite of what they are looking at.
    I don't mind if I'm a sewer rat working for the Source of reality; 18 years ago I started working for God knowing I was an angel sent from Heaven with my name in the world's religious texts (Revelation 19:12 = Revelation 3:12), yet due to lots of study we can prove I'm an archangel (Sandalphon), with the New Name of Christ (Sananda), where the New Jerusalem is King Zion Elohim (Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7).

    The idea people reject the Biblical prophecy is because they have a limited understanding; we need some smarter people to recognize the basics in the texts or mankind ends soon, and then we keep the enlightened saints after the Great Tribulation - as trying to accuse Christ of being sent by Satan isn't logical. :confused:

    In Revelation we have the 'Lamb's book of life', this is a plural diminutive; A Flock of Lambs in Hebrew is Zan's book of life - which is my nickname.

    Zan/Zion (ציון ▬ צאן) is the Tribe of Israel, with the Messiah having the same name.

    In many of the world's religions our name Zanda is specific:
    Thus clearly only the Source of reality could have made many of the religions this way, as I was told as a 4-5 year old; to claim they're all made up would be silly.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #150 wizanda, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  11. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were an archangel? Besides, wouldn’t Trump be a better candidate to be the reincarnation of a male sex addict who used promises of sex with princes and princesses to get his way politically?
     
  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Archangels are in a dimension of Wisdom (12D) beyond Unconditional Loving (11D).

    David made mistakes, yet was inspired with Divine poetry, and blessed a nation by making them Godly; whereas Trump is doing the exact opposite.

    Biblically David is prophesied as the Messiah:

    Ezekiel 34:23-24, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 30:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, Hosea 3:5, Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 22:22, Isaiah 9:6-7, Revelation 5:5, etc.

    In the Psalms 89:19-21 David was appointed to be the Messiah, where he would suffer at the hands of his own people (Psalms 22); where Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased multiple words the same, yet it is badly translated, and should say 'anointed' not 'marred'.

    Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. (20) I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

    Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed him more than others appearance, and his form more than a son of man.


    Thus David became a better man (Yehoshua/Yeshua) through learning to Serve his people, with the spirit of God inspiring him to become both Priest, with the Spirit of Salvation (Yeshua - Isaiah 52:10-14), and return as King to Lead the Flock (Zion - Isaiah 52:7).

    Revelation 10 I fulfilled before reading the Bible on a sacred mountain, it contains that the person is the Lion of Judah (Revelation 10:3), and the same with Revelation 5:5, which happened before the pilgrimage.

    This is prophesied to happen before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15-16), where Christ comes back as a Thief at the Midnight Hour (Revelation 3:3, Matthew 25:1-13) to see who is ready to meet the Source of reality.

    Unlike Trump I've only been explaining on Religious Forums, our site, Paltalk; I have hardly used Twitter, as I can't justify the world's religion that way.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #152 wizanda, Mar 28, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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