Are Muslims disobeying the Qur'an by participating in this forum?

[stevecanuck]

Thanks. Yet, you still through out a word for shock effect. But you dont know the meaning of it. Try not to throw words out like that as an insult or shock effect. Not a good argument. Better to read up on it.

Everybody knows what it means. "One who struggles/strives". There's no insult or shock attached to it except in your cranial folds.

 

[stevecanuck]

You mean rape? If its not consensual, its rape right? So is that what you mean?

Yup. A Muslim can rape his wife (2:223), so obviously slaves and captives have even less to say about it.

Can you please quote where in the Qur'an "rape" or "Forced sex" is vividly allowed?

Thanks.

Nice false dichotomy. Unless a verse explicitly uses the word "rape" or "forced", then it's not rape. Right? Again, nice try.

Just take 2:223 for example. It says, "when and how YOU will". There's not even so much as a hint that the woman has anything to say about it. The verses about having sex with captives and slaves only mention having sex from the man's perspective.

You can't show a verse that even remotely suggests that women have the right to say no.

 

[firedragon]

Is 1 out of 3 a passing grade?

No disrespect intended. This particular verse I quoted is aiming at those who belong to a religion. Jews, Christians and the Sabaa (which at the root means "other"). Also one must note that this is inclusion, which does not mean everything else is "excluded".

An example will be "I eat chicken, beef, and vegetables and all of them taste good", that does not mean if someone cooks an ostrich it by default cannot taste good.

 

[firedragon]

Everybody knows what it means. "One who struggles/strives". There's no insult or shock attached to it except in your cranial folds.

Great. Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

Yup. A Muslim can rape his wife (2:223)

It does not say that. Karb does not mean "rape". Lol. Hilarious. Lets say I tell you "Karb min rayeesik fee al amal" I am telling you to "go and speak to your boss". Am I telling you to rape your boss?

What you say is absolutely non sensical.

Just take 2:223 for example. It says, "when and how YOU will". There's not even so much as a hint that the woman has anything to say about it. The verses about having sex with captives and slaves only mention having sex from the man's perspective.

So what you are basically saying is that if I tell you to go to your boss, since that sentence does not say "your boss didnt say no", this sentence simply means "you can rape your boss".

Its hilarious.

 

[stevecanuck]

quran ' let there be no compulsion in religion ' muslims debate nonmuslims all over the world

There is no, "Let there be" in that verse (2:256). There is only "No compulsion", with an understood, "There is no", in front of it. If you read the verses that precede it you'll see it has nothing to do with whether or not to compel or force people to become Muslim. As usual, it's just Allah banging on about how great he is, and that his greatness is so obvious that a person won't have to be compelled to join Islam. That is probably the most mis-used verse in the Qur'an. Islamopropagandists just love it.

 

[stevecanuck]

in bible the woman who is raped must marry her rapist

I was hoping you'd be better than to use whataboutism. No such luck.

 

[stevecanuck]

the disbelievers are called low beasts for denying their creator

You agree then. You are a Muslim elitist and damned proud of it.

 

[Left Coast]

No disrespect intended. This particular verse I quoted is aiming at those who belong to a religion. Jews, Christians and the Sabaa (which at the root means "other"). Also one must note that this is inclusion, which does not mean everything else is "excluded".

An example will be "I eat chicken, beef, and vegetables and all of them taste good", that does not mean if someone cooks an ostrich it by default cannot taste good.

I hear you. Do you believe atheists make it to Paradise?

 

[firedragon]

I hear you. Do you believe atheists make it to Paradise?

There is no indication whatsoever that as a whole group or a set of people by default will not go to paradise. None. We do not have that knowledge, neither is it in the Qur'anic text.

People like to call themselves names when embracing a theology or insulting it. When embracing Islam people announce their "I am muslim" loudness, and insulting it people announce "I am an infidel". But its not that simple if one educates himself in the theology. There are places where people are called "polytheists" and they will be condemned, but if one reads the Quran, in a particular situation where a set of people have broken a treaty, which is a trust broken, and is a worship of themselves and Gold, it is called polytheism in the Quranic context. If you worship your own ego/wishful thinking/desire which is called havah is called polytheism in the Quran. Thus, based on that context, a peoples leadership that breaks an oath is called polytheists.

What some atheists (not everyone because there are true atheist scholars) do is they pick one verse, ignore the context, and call themselves "polytheists" and make claims like "Islam hates us by default".

So that's false, but common.

Yes. Atheists also will be in this so called paradise. And of course, Muslims will also be there. Not all. Hopefully, most. And that is my opinion. Since there is no indication in the Quran that all of those who call themselves Muslims will have salvation by default. None. I can call myself a Muslim just to get a job or be in the mob. I could be an atheist in my heart. There are many like that. Also Vice Versa.

 

[stevecanuck]

It does not say that. Karb does not mean "rape". Lol. Hilarious. Lets say I tell you "Karb min rayeesik fee al amal" I am telling you to "go and speak to your boss". Am I telling you to rape your boss?

What you say is absolutely non sensical.



So what you are basically saying is that if I tell you to go to your boss, since that sentence does not say "your boss didnt say no", this sentence simply means "you can rape your boss".

Its hilarious.

Another stupid deflection.

 

[firedragon]

Another stupid deflection.

There is no rape there mate. If you dont understand something, do some research. Engage with an argument.

 

[stevecanuck]

There is no indication whatsoever that as a whole group or a set of people by default will not go to paradise. None. We do not have that knowledge, neither is it in the Qur'anic text.

People like to call themselves names when embracing a theology or insulting it. When embracing Islam people announce their "I am muslim" loudness, and insulting it people announce "I am an infidel". But its not that simple if one educates himself in the theology. There are places where people are called "polytheists" and they will be condemned, but if one reads the Quran, in a particular situation where a set of people have broken a treaty, which is a trust broken, and is a worship of themselves and Gold, it is called polytheism in the Quranic context. If you worship your own ego/wishful thinking/desire which is called havah is called polytheism in the Quran. Thus, based on that context, a peoples leadership that breaks an oath is called polytheists.

What some atheists (not everyone because there are true atheist scholars) do is they pick one verse, ignore the context, and call themselves "polytheists" and make claims like "Islam hates us by default".

So that's false, but common.

Yes. Atheists also will be in this so called paradise. And of course, Muslims will also be there. Not all. Hopefully, most. And that is my opinion. Since there is no indication in the Quran that all of those who call themselves Muslims will have salvation by default. None. I can call myself a Muslim just to get a job or be in the mob. I could be an atheist in my heart. There are many like that. Also Vice Versa.

That's probably the biggest bare-faced lie I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[firedragon]

That's probably the biggest bare-faced lie I've ever seen on this forum.

I have heard that kind of argument when things go over someones head.

If you wish to be a scholar of the Qur'an, learn arabic, study the Qur'an, and memorise it if you could. When you do that you go a bit deep and you will remember and know the context of the whole book. Everyone does not need to be scholars, but at least have the humility to understand something first prior to insulting, mocking and being you. That will show character.

Tell me. Since you know the Qur'an so well, what is the word for an atheist in the Qur'an?

 

[stevecanuck]

There is no rape there mate. If you dont understand something, do some research. Engage with an argument.

The verse clearly says to 'approach' your wife when and how you will. Consent, you say? What consent?

 

[stevecanuck]

I have heard that kind of argument when things go over someones head.

If you wish to be a scholar of the Qur'an, learn arabic, study the Qur'an, and memorise it if you could. When you do that you go a bit deep and you will remember and know the context of the whole book. Everyone does not need to be scholars, but at least have the humility to understand something first prior to insulting, mocking and being you. That will show character.

Tell me. Since you know the Qur'an so well, what is the word for an atheist in the Qur'an?

There's that false dichotomy again. It MUST use the Arabic equivalent of the English 'atheist', or it doesn't mean 'atheist'. Right?

Verse 9:29 uses "those who believe not in Allah", so we'll go with that if it's okay with you.

This is where you answer with one of your patented condescending 'tut-tut's. Fill your boots.

 

[firedragon]

The verse clearly says to 'approach' your wife when and how you will. Consent, you say? What consent?

It does not say "when". You made that up. It does not say "How you will". You made that up.

The verse prior says women are "harthun lakum" and explains when they have periods not to have sex. Next verse says "approach them as you feel in goodness". Kadhdhimu. It tells you to be conscious of God. God consciousness or taqwa
means you have righteousness. The inner speech that tells you not to do wrong things.

It does not tell you to "rape your wife".

You made that up.

 

[firedragon]

There's that false dichotomy again. It MUST use the Arabic equivalent of the English 'atheist', or it doesn't mean 'atheist'. Right?

Verse 9:29 uses "those who believe not in Allah", so we'll go with that if it's okay with you.

This is where you answer with one of your patented condescending 'tut-tut's. Fill your boots.

I will ignore your baseless insults because there are cheap people like you in this world.

Mate. Verse 9:29 speaks of those who broke a treaty. They are liars. They dont believe in God because they are oath breakers. People who believe in God and the last day know they should not lie and cheat. That is not speaking of "All the atheists". You are making that up.

I have already explained that in the post you responded with a scholarly "that's a lie".

 

[KWED]

You mean rape? If its not consensual, its rape right? So is that what you mean?
Can you please quote where in the Qur'an "rape" or "Forced sex" is vividly allowed?

If you think that "rape" is only "Forced sex", then you are somewhat behind the times, old man.

Any sex where free and informed consent is not given is rape. Prisoners and slaves are not deemed to be capable of giving free and informed consent. Therefore the Quranic permission to use female captives for sex is condoning rape, in a modern legal context. And "what Allah has made halal, no man can make haram", and all that.
Similarly, sex with young children is legally classed as rape, even if 'consent' is granted. So anyone having sex with a girl as young as 9, for example, would be guilty of rape under the law, regardless of the circumstances.

In the Quran and sunnah, the concept of 'sexual consent' does not exist. "Sexual access is granted by marriage or ownership, the concept of consent is meaningless", as Islamic scholar Prof. Jonathan Brown puts it.

 

[KWED]

quran ' let there be no compulsion in religion ' muslims debate nonmuslims all over the world

So does that mean that Muslims don't have to follow the Quran? If they don't want to pray five times a day, that's fine. There is no compulsion in religion, right?