Are Muslims disobeying the Qur'an by participating in this forum?

[stevecanuck]

Verse 4:140 of the Qur'an states:

Yusuf Ali: Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

A cynic might even suggest that Allah is afraid of his followers being defeated in a debate and swayed away from the 'truth'.

Comments?

 

[MyM]

No, why would you think that?

 

[The Hammer]

By participating in the forum it seems not.

But by potentially engaging in fruitless debate with someone unwilling to listen (like yourself), then possibly.

I'm not Muslim though.

 

[paarsurrey]

Verse 4:140 of the Qur'an states:

Yusuf Ali: Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

A cynic might even suggest that Allah is afraid of his followers being defeated in a debate and swayed away from the 'truth'.

Comments?

4:141

وَقَدۡ نَزَّلَ عَلَیۡکُمۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ اَنۡ اِذَا سَمِعۡتُمۡ اٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ یُکۡفَرُ بِہَا وَیُسۡتَہۡزَاُ بِہَا فَلَا تَقۡعُدُوۡا مَعَہُمۡ حَتّٰی یَخُوۡضُوۡا فِیۡ حَدِیۡثٍ غَیۡرِہٖۤ ۫ۖ اِنَّکُمۡ اِذًا مِّثۡلُہُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ جَامِعُ الۡمُنٰفِقِیۡنَ وَالۡکٰفِرِیۡنَ فِیۡ جَہَنَّمَ جَمِیۡعَۨا ﴿۱۴۱﴾ۙ

English - Sher Ali
And He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together;
Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
" being denied and mocked at "

When people start ridiculing and or mocking , that in fact indicates that they are no longer serious to continue the debate and or discussion. Right, please?

Regards

 

[rational experiences]

Verse 4:140 of the Qur'an states:

Yusuf Ali: Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

A cynic might even suggest that Allah is afraid of his followers being defeated in a debate and swayed away from the 'truth'.

Comments?

If humans don't deny spirituality which is all things all breaths AH biology living. Everywhere. Then he is not denying his biological teaching.

Which we are not swayed from.

Machines however are not the living and were not created by all breaths.

Was the human medical biological philosophical teachings.

As the living garden nature is a part of life's oxygenation wood.

Not a metal.

 

[MyM]

4:141

وَقَدۡ نَزَّلَ عَلَیۡکُمۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ اَنۡ اِذَا سَمِعۡتُمۡ اٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ یُکۡفَرُ بِہَا وَیُسۡتَہۡزَاُ بِہَا فَلَا تَقۡعُدُوۡا مَعَہُمۡ حَتّٰی یَخُوۡضُوۡا فِیۡ حَدِیۡثٍ غَیۡرِہٖۤ ۫ۖ اِنَّکُمۡ اِذًا مِّثۡلُہُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ جَامِعُ الۡمُنٰفِقِیۡنَ وَالۡکٰفِرِیۡنَ فِیۡ جَہَنَّمَ جَمِیۡعَۨا ﴿۱۴۱﴾ۙ

English - Sher Ali
And He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together;
Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
" being denied and mocked at "

When people start ridiculing and or mocking , that in fact indicates that they are no longer serious to continue the debate and or discussion. Right, please?

Regards

Is why I refuse to discuss with athiests anymore

 

[The Hammer]

Is why I refuse to discuss with athiests anymore

I don't either. It's fruitless.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, why would you think that?

Ermmmmm, ok????

What does 4:140 say to you if not what it says to me?

 

[stevecanuck]

By participating in the forum it seems not.

But by potentially engaging in fruitless debate with someone unwilling to listen (like yourself), then possibly.

I'm not Muslim though.

Can you post an example in which I was "unwilling to listen"?

 

[stevecanuck]

4:141

وَقَدۡ نَزَّلَ عَلَیۡکُمۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ اَنۡ اِذَا سَمِعۡتُمۡ اٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ یُکۡفَرُ بِہَا وَیُسۡتَہۡزَاُ بِہَا فَلَا تَقۡعُدُوۡا مَعَہُمۡ حَتّٰی یَخُوۡضُوۡا فِیۡ حَدِیۡثٍ غَیۡرِہٖۤ ۫ۖ اِنَّکُمۡ اِذًا مِّثۡلُہُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ جَامِعُ الۡمُنٰفِقِیۡنَ وَالۡکٰفِرِیۡنَ فِیۡ جَہَنَّمَ جَمِیۡعَۨا ﴿۱۴۱﴾ۙ

English - Sher Ali
And He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together;
Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
" being denied and mocked at "

When people start ridiculing and or mocking , that in fact indicates that they are no longer serious to continue the debate and or discussion. Right, please?



Regards

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If a Muslims deems I'm only ridiculing and mocking rather than debating, then are they not obligated to stop talking to me? If they are, then I can name you a few of this forum who are in trouble come judgement day.

Btw, some translations specify "denied" rather than "ridiculed".

 

[Left Coast]

Verse 4:140 of the Qur'an states:

Yusuf Ali: Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

A cynic might even suggest that Allah is afraid of his followers being defeated in a debate and swayed away from the 'truth'.

Comments?

We get it.

You don't like Islam.

Loud and clear.

 

[stevecanuck]

When people start ridiculing and or mocking , that in fact indicates that they are no longer serious to continue the debate and or discussion. Right, please?

Regards

Further to this, I just checked the Arabic, and "being denied" is definitely the translation as it uses a conjugation of KFR in the 3rd person masculine singular imperfect verb tense.

 

[MyM]

I don't either. It's fruitless.

I learned my lesson and yet watch, I will be called the stupid one ...oh well lol

 

[stevecanuck]

You don't like Islam.

And Islam doesn't like you. We are both considered "the lowest of God's beasts (5:88)".

 

[The Hammer]

Can you post an example in which I was "unwilling to listen"?

This is what I was referring to.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

Emphasis on "the likes of me" which to me signals someone unwilling to listen and/or argumentative with the sole purpose of proving or winning said argument.

 

[stevecanuck]

Is why I refuse to discuss with athiests anymore

Then you are indeed following 4:140. Allah will be pleased.

 

[Left Coast]

And Islam doesn't like you. We are both considered "the lowest of God's beasts (5:88)".

"And eat of the lawful and good things God has provided for you; and be conscious of God, in Whom you are believers."

If you're gonna criticize it, at least cite it correctly.

Quran in English - Clear and Easy to Read.

 

[stevecanuck]

This is what I was referring to.



Emphasis on "the likes of me" which to me signals someone unwilling to listen and/or argumentative with the sole purpose of proving or winning said argument.

Nope. It just means I am one who "denies God's signs" (i.e. I'm not a Muslim).

 

[stevecanuck]

"And eat of the lawful and good things God has provided for you; and be conscious of God, in Whom you are believers."

If you're gonna criticize it, at least cite it correctly.

Quran in English - Clear and Easy to Read.

I transposed the numbers, It's 8:55.

Sahih International: Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

Pickthall: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.

Yusuf Ali: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.

Shakir: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

Muhammad Sarwar: The most wicked creatures in the sight of God are the unbelievers who never have faith,

Mohsin Khan: Verily, The worst of moving (living) creatures before Allah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.

Arberry: Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers, who will not believe

 

[Left Coast]

I transposed the numbers, It's 8:55.

Sahih International: Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

Pickthall: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.

Yusuf Ali: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.

Shakir: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

Muhammad Sarwar: The most wicked creatures in the sight of God are the unbelievers who never have faith,

Mohsin Khan: Verily, The worst of moving (living) creatures before Allah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.

Arberry: Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers, who will not believe

Yeah that's bad.

Now what?