Are men responsible for women?

[Ceridwen018]

It was brought up in another thread, that it is the responsibility of men to protect their women because they are stronger than them.

This view could be held due to a person's religious beliefs, or without religious instigation--all responses are welcome.

Anyhow, Melody pointed out that she is a certified black belt, and can kick the pants off of any man. Myself, I feel that if I can wrestle with 1500 lb. young horses who would love nothing better than to see me eat dirt, I can handle sticky situations as well.

It is one thing for a man to try and protect his woman because he loves her and knows she would do the same for him, and quite another thing for a man to act because he feels it is his duty. The latter way of thinking is quite archaic, in my opinion, and men should look into subscribing to the former.

 

[Master Vigil]

It just reminds me of a wedding my sister went to. Her friend in high school married a mormom priest. And she said all throughout high school she was very independent, stood up for herself as a woman, and all that stuff. But during the wedding the priest said to them, Mark, you serve god, and Jodi, you serve Mark. And more stuff along those lines. It literally was saying that the chain of command went : God - Man - Woman. I think that is disgusting!!!!! If anything it should be Goddess - Woman - Man . But I don't think either man or woman are superior to the other and both should protect the other. While sure, as an average I suppose guys are stronger than girls. But physical strength doesn't necessitate superiority either. And nowadays things are getting more androgynous and men and women are almost on the same playing field. Which I think is the way to go!!! I have had the pleasure (Like I said in the other thread) of teaching, being taught from, and being teammates with some of the greatest female fighters I have ever seen. They just tear people up!!!! And the funny part is, THEY LOVE FIGHTING MEN!!!!! Because they WIN!!!!!! I have been beaten loads of times from a few of them. (Of course I have won as well, but thats not the point ) I just think that people need to realize that this is the 21'st century, and those old ideals just don't cut it anymore.

 

[Mister Emu]

I guess I am an Archaic guy. If I saw a woman being accosted I would feel it my duty to help. I understand that this way of thinking is probably less than desired by women, but I cannot change it.

Edit: I just wanted to make it clear, that I do not feel it my duty because of some preconceived notion of feminine fragility.

 

[Melody]

Anyhow, Melody pointed out that she is a certified black belt, and can kick the pants off of any man.

Clarification....not me. It's one of my cousins! I can only dream. I could never progress in karate because I flinch when anything comes at my face. Just could not get over that.

 

[Master Vigil]

But I doubt you help her because you feel you are superior to her and that it is your job since she can't take care of herself. You do it because you respect her, and you care that she needs help. I think thats a big difference.

 

[Melody]

I guess I am an Archaic guy. If I saw a woman being accosted I would feel it my duty to help. I understand that this way of thinking is probably less than desired by women, but I cannot change it.

Edit: I just wanted to make it clear, that I do not feel it my duty because of some preconceived notion of feminine fragility.

Since it's done without a preconceived notion of "fragility", it sounds less "archaic" than common decency.

 

[cardero]

There was an incident where mrscarrdero and I were working back to back in the same tollbooth and a patron came through and he had made an illegal U-turn (he picked up the ticket at our station and somewhere on the Thruway did an illegal U-turn and returned to the same station with the same ticket) in which we are to charge them from the most distant station (which for us would be Buffalo, NY) which cost $10.70. mrscarrdero asked me what she should do and I had advise her to charge the guy from the next toll station and back (which is only a $1.00), which he should have done anyway and the guy started giving mrscarrdero a hard time telling her that he just turned around and why should he have to pay anything even though the ticket states that illegal U-turns were not permitted. Now before Rizza (mrscarrdero) could respond to this patron I was all up in his face about why he was giving this collector a hard time and I had the vein throbbing in my temple and I ended up scaring mrscarrdero with a temper that she was unfamiliar with. The guy paid his buck but not without a few exchanges of words with me and he drove off. I felt kind of bad, not only because the episode did not have to escalate into that kind of situation but I never gave mrscarrdero a chance to deal with it herself due to my being overprotective of her. I should have let her handled the transaction but at the same time I could not stand that this guy was giving her a hard time when mrscarrdero was definitely giving him “the benefit of the doubt”.

 

[Master Vigil]

Clarification....not me. It's one of my cousins! I can only dream. I could never progress in karate because I flinch when anything comes at my face. Just could not get over that.

No problem Melody, what we would do is take that "flinch" you get. And turn it into a Big flinch that involves side stepping, blocking the attackers punch, and jamming your knuckles into his throat. HAHA!!!! But seriously, thats what we would teach you. We take your natural defense mechanisms and modifiy them so that your "flinch" that you can't overcome, turns into a defensive attack. Neat huh?

 

[painted wolf]

Back in the hunter gatherer days men had to be protectors because women were often pregnant or with small children. They were the ones who had the time and circumstances that let them be 'warriors'.
still the most dangerous animal is the mother protecting her young.

Today women can often fend for themselves.

Men are not 'superior' to women and frankly any man who tried to 'dominate' me would get his butt handed to him. (I am by no means a delicate 'civilized' woman, I am a traditional 'primitive' woman )
In many 'primitive' societies women were just as strong as men, we did the heavy lifting, children, loads of firewood, crops, and in first nations before the horse, we carried all the families posessions that the dogs could not.
Men didn't cary things around save thier weapons. Granted they needed to be ready to fight should the need arise, but it made for a great excuse not to have to carry things.

wa:do

 

[Lightkeeper]

I don't think men are responsible for women and I don't think men are always stronger than women. When you think about it women have been responsible for men on many levels for many moons. I think we are all responsible for anyone who is in trouble.

 

[Melody]

No problem Melody, what we would do is take that "flinch" you get. And turn it into a Big flinch that involves side stepping, blocking the attackers punch, and jamming your knuckles into his throat. HAHA!!!! But seriously, thats what we would teach you. We take your natural defense mechanisms and modifiy them so that your "flinch" that you can't overcome, turns into a defensive attack. Neat huh?

Way cool....I could probably handle that because it allows me to "flinch"

 

[Melody]

I don't think men are responsible for women and I don't think men are always stronger than women. When you think about it women have been responsible for men on many levels for many moons. I think we are all responsible for anyone who is in trouble.

Frubals to you, Lightkeeper.

I know that the more conservative Christians interpret the Bible verses in a way that is, in my opinion, demeaning and puts women on the level of a somewhat mentally handicapped child. While I agree they can be interpreted that way if you try to make these verses stand alone, the "tone" of the Bible does not indicate that God created woman to be a door mat for man. There are wonderful stories in the Bible of strong women "within the confines" of their culture and time.

I often think of the yin and yang symbol when I think of men and women. We both have our strengths and weaknesses and the interconnect beautifully to make the whole much stronger than the individual halves.

 

[jewscout]

I guess I am an Archaic guy. If I saw a woman being accosted I would feel it my duty to help. I understand that this way of thinking is probably less than desired by women, but I cannot change it.

Edit: I just wanted to make it clear, that I do not feel it my duty because of some preconceived notion of feminine fragility.

hey i'm right there with you Emu...
Call me old fashioned but i see someone accosting a lady and their gonna get my steel toweds up their butt!
If this offends any of the ladies out there...hey i'm just an old fashioned sorta guy in that way...not that women can't defend themselves or are incapable of doing so...it's just what was engrained in me by my mother when i was going up...
hell i still open doors, pay for dinners and all that other chivalrous stuff

 

[michel]

I would like to think that I could be responsible for my wife, but I'm not sure she'd let me say that without her permission; besides, she's stronger than I:jiggy:

 

[robtex]

I would be more in favor of the equality mentioned by others above for the same reasons that attribute to an inbalance but I would like to note that I have observed members of both sexes say one thing in print (locally of course) and than behave the opposite in interaction. It makes me wonder how much they are aware of it and if it something that sounds good on paper to them but seems difficult to apply in life.

As far as physical protection (from an aggressor) I dont' know why any man would feel a need to protect a woman more than say another man, child dog or cat. I would feel equally obligated to protect anyone if I felt I could intercede on their behalf and do not understand the rational behind genderized protection standards. What I mean is if a man is hitting a woman to me I see the the same need to interceed as if he was hitting another man, a child kicking a dog ect.
I am not sure why the need changes in priority by gender and would like to hear the rationale for it.

 

[Lycan]

I think the word "responsible" is the wrong word...
Do I think women are subserviant to men... No
Do I think women are of lesser ability than men... No
Do I think women can handle themselves as well as any man...Yes
Do I think that men are the dominant of the species... Yes (this is after all still a male dominated world and always has been)
But as for "responsible", I do believe men are responsible for women, just as women are responsible for men. We are all responsible for each other. And in responsible I mean having a duty to reach out to those that need us, regardless of sex.

 

[Lightkeeper]

I think the word "responsible" is the wrong word...
Do I think women are subserviant to men... No
Do I think women are of lesser ability than men... No
Do I think women can handle themselves as well as any man...Yes
Do I think that men are the dominant of the species... Yes (this is after all still a male dominated world and always has been)
But as for "responsible", I do believe men are responsible for women, just as women are responsible for men. We are all responsible for each other. And in responsible I mean having a duty to reach out to those that need us, regardless of sex.

The world has not always been male dominated. There have been many women rulers and Goddess worship. As society depends less on brawn and more on brains and technology, we will have less male domination.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

I'm not sure dominant is fair, though...possibly when your dominance comes from physical strength, that makes sense, but now? Just because something's been a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it's either right nor necessary.

Anyway, do I feel responsible for women? Yes, in the same way I feel responsible for any human, I suppose. I mean, heck, if a guy's getting beaten up, is he any less deserving of help because he has a different set of genitalia and hormones?

 

[BUDDY]

Are men responsible for women?

In the universal sense, I would say no. In the marriage relationship, I would have to say yes according the what the Bible teaches. The Bible also teaches that in the marriage relationship the two are to become one, working together as a team in everything that you do for the rest of your life. If the man is dominating over his wife, he is not following the command to work as a team. As far as ultimate responsibility goes, it is his responsibilty to make sure that the team is doing as it should.

Ephesians 5:
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

In the physical sense, I would have to say that it depends. As some have stated already, I would also hope that we would help each other out in times of trouble regardless of sex. I had the opportunity, while in the Marine Corps, to work with a few female Marines that I would not want to tangle with. In most instances I think that the man in physically stronger than a woman, but that has nothing to do with who can win in a fight. While the women I worked with in the Marine Corps were in support rolls and not allowed to go to combat with the rest of my team, I have no doubt they would have been able to handle themselves were the need to arise.

 

[robtex]

In the universal sense, I would say no. In the marriage relationship, I would have to say yes according the what the Bible teaches. .

Isn't the bible your rationale and reality ? I thought the universe was explained in the bible.