Are Cyberattacks an Act of War?

[Quintessence]

In an increasingly interconnected (perhaps over-connected) media landscape, the power of foreign powers to meddle in the affairs of a nation has attained levels that were unimaginable even a few decades ago. As Russian-sponsored social media bots continue to manipulate information (or disinformation, as it were) unchecked, I can't help but ask the question:

Is this an act of war?

Legally, I think we can say the answer is "no" from what I understand if this stuff here - 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
Something has to be a physical, armed conflict in order for us to legally call something an act of war. I can't help but thinking that this perspective is a little... well... dated. But what do you all think?

 

[Orbit]

I think it's more properly called espionage.

 

[Valjean]

They are whatever a government chooses to label them.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are whatever a government chooses to label them.

And they also are not (at times) what a government labels them.
The standard is both murky & double.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In an increasingly interconnected (perhaps over-connected) media landscape, the power of foreign powers to meddle in the affairs of a nation has attained levels that were unimaginable even a few decades ago. As Russian-sponsored social media bots continue to manipulate information (or disinformation, as it were) unchecked, I can't help but ask the question:

Is this an act of war?

Legally, I think we can say the answer is "no" from what I understand if this stuff here - 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
Something has to be a physical, armed conflict in order for us to legally call something an act of war. I can't help but thinking that this perspective is a little... well... dated. But what do you all think?

Our Reliance on technology is going to be our downfall someday.

 

[Valjean]

Our Reliance on technology is going to be our downfall someday.

Any day now...

 

[ChristineM]

In an increasingly interconnected (perhaps over-connected) media landscape, the power of foreign powers to meddle in the affairs of a nation has attained levels that were unimaginable even a few decades ago. As Russian-sponsored social media bots continue to manipulate information (or disinformation, as it were) unchecked, I can't help but ask the question:

Is this an act of war?

Legally, I think we can say the answer is "no" from what I understand if this stuff here - 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
Something has to be a physical, armed conflict in order for us to legally call something an act of war. I can't help but thinking that this perspective is a little... well... dated. But what do you all think?

Not only Russia, just about every country with the tech is in on the act to some extent, internationally and nationally. As @Orbit stated in post #2, it's more properly espionage. Internationally to spy on or influence foreign pioneers, nationally to spy on its population.

Just done a traceroute between my device and RF, the signal route passes through 4 technologically advances countries who have the ability to read or modify this post before it ever reaches the RF database.

Nothing of interest to the bots so it won't be flagged and it will zip along the ether as though nothing is in the way.

It's easily doable, teenage kids have been hacking the net since the greatful dead first started using the arpa net to advertise their gigs. To make it even easier, sophisticated software is available online if you know where to look.

Government's and military (including your own) go to great lengths and expense to tax payers in an attempt to foil interception of their data. And foreign powers (including your own) spend vast amo.unts of tax payers money to circumvent the protection.

It's an upward spiral that will not stop unless the entire structure of global communications is redesigned, not with communication in mind but for security

 

[Stanyon]

I would say no, but also add that if we consider spying, bots to attempt to manipulate opinion on social media sites and spreading disinformation we need look no further than advertisers, domestic news media outlets and our own government- It's a war for our minds.
. What I would really hate to see is people here in the U.S. Supporting a push for allowing certain entities to monitor and block certain communications because it has been deemed as coming from a hostile source, it would no doubt be packaged as for our own good and protection.

 

[sun rise]

Personally I would say yes which means that a proportionate response is called for.

That written, I'd rather have a cyber war compared to one with bullets and bombs.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Aside from governments meddling with other governments, business and industry is where real money is to be made...and stolen.

But I recall a certain Asian tyrant a few years ago who was offended that Sony was making a movie about him, and so paid his minions to hack the company...

The lines are getting blurry...

 

[ExVasterist]

Honestly I see it as poking the bull with a stick expecting a certain reaction.
If we ignore them or just hack back, there's really nothing they can do.
But if we initiate the War, then I'd say that's when they'll say to everyone else "See? I told you they are warmongers!" and possibly everyone else will jump in.
If they initiate the War, everyone else will probably think "You clearly have a death wish."

Also, we (The US) have been hacking & illegally spying on everyone including our own allies for decades. Russia hacking the US when you think about it is no big deal, and say we use that as our cause for war, many other countries who were also hacked by the US will be like "Well you hacked us!" which is honestly the truth.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Cyber attacks are perfectly acceptable- when they benefit Republicans...

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In an increasingly interconnected (perhaps over-connected) media landscape, the power of foreign powers to meddle in the affairs of a nation has attained levels that were unimaginable even a few decades ago. As Russian-sponsored social media bots continue to manipulate information (or disinformation, as it were) unchecked, I can't help but ask the question:

Is this an act of war?

Legally, I think we can say the answer is "no" from what I understand if this stuff here - 18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions
Something has to be a physical, armed conflict in order for us to legally call something an act of war. I can't help but thinking that this perspective is a little... well... dated. But what do you all think?

As I understand it, if cyber-espionage by a hostile foreign power that assaults the sanctity of American elections - and therefore its democracy - can be declared an act of war, collaborating with the Russians can be called treason, since treason is defined as aiding and abetting the enemy in a time of war.

Perhaps somebody with legal expertise can comment on this and clarify just what treason is in the legal sense.

 

[Mister Emu]

I want to laugh, heartily, at the idea of social media bots being an act of war. Unfortunately, some people are deadly serious when they say it.

I think most cyber attacking falls under espionage, looking to find information vulnerability. I would imagine some theoretical acts could cross the line to an act of war (causing physical harm via an electronic attack).

 

[Quintessence]

I want to laugh, heartily, at the idea of social media bots being an act of war. Unfortunately, some people are deadly serious when they say it.

Why do you think it's funny? Do you deny that information (and exposure to it) influences human behavior?

 

[Quintessence]

Aside from governments meddling with other governments, business and industry is where real money is to be made...and stolen.

But I recall a certain Asian tyrant a few years ago who was offended that Sony was making a movie about him, and so paid his minions to hack the company...

The lines are getting blurry...

I think also about DDoS attacks. Every so often some idiot with too much time on their hands basically shuts down the entire service for everyone. Is this criminalized? Are these people tracked down and put in jail? What is done about these sorts of things?

I ran across an article in the New York Times yesterday that relates to this topic - On Social Media, Lax Enforcement Lets Impostor Accounts Thrive ; not so much a political thing, but basically it's really easy for someone to impersonate others on social media. Not much is done about this, either.

In general, the things one can do to exploit individuals and even nations using computers and the internet is scary to think about. Originally, I stayed away from social media because of a bad experience I had using it many years back, but now there are so many other reasons to avoid it.

 

[Mister Emu]

Why do you think it's funny?

Why wouldn't it be?

Do you deny that information (and exposure to it) influences human behavior?

No, I deny vigorously that attempts to influence public opinion is warfare.

I think also about DDoS attacks. Every so often some idiot with too much time on their hands basically shuts down the entire service for everyone. Is this criminalized? Are these people tracked down and put in jail? What is done about these sorts of things?

DDoS attacks are illegal, and if the perpetrator can be tracked down they will be. But generally, what you do is pay to use someone's botnet, which won't be traced to either nefarious party.

 

[Quintessence]

Why wouldn't it be?

That's not really an answer, but okay.

No, I deny vigorously that attempts to influence public opinion is warfare.

Never heard of information warfare I take it? Or you feel that the phrase "information warfare" is a misnomer?

 

[Mister Emu]

That's not really an answer, but okay.

Facebook posts and tweets being called acts of war is so facially absurd that I can't fathom the idea of saying it with a straight face. Who have they harmed and how? What actual damage has been done? Words aren't violence and attempts to influence aren't attacks.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Social media bots and the like may not be an "attack," but it is part of organized efforts by several nations, not just limited to Russia, not only to affect public opinion, but to penetrate and affect the state and federal governments, as well as finance and other portions of the private sector.