Any anti-abortion liberals?

[Mathematician]

I don't like the term "pro-life" used in reference to the abortion debate. To me it paints people of dissenting opinions as "anti-life", which we all know is not the case. After all, aren't we the ones sick of the wars and revenge killings?

Instead I prefer to call myself an anti-abortion liberal. I believe ALL killings outside of defence of the self or another are wrong (in regard to humans, and to a lesser extent animals -- but that's for another topic).

However, like the flash terms used in reference to where people throw their support behind, I do not associate myself with conservative 'pro-life' organizations. I do not call for the execution of abortion doctors, I do not want to intimidate mothers whom have had abortions done, I do not want to revert back to the failed policy of abstinence only, and I do not want mothers faced with likely death to be forced through their pregnancy.

What I do want is more support for struggling women. I believe in investing money in the research of ectogenesis so that we could replace most unwanted pregnancy abortions with artificial womb transfers. I also believe in making post and pre maternal psychological help cheaper, if not free (Socialist! Socialist!) for all pregnant mothers and their SOs.

Of course, being anti-abortion, I also want to see the practice of abortion destroyed. That might not settle well with most of my liberal brothers and sisters, but I just feel that it's an unacceptable practice, unless when the mother's life is in danger.

 

[lilithu]

I do not call for the execution of abortion doctors, I do not want to intimidate mothers whom have had abortions done, I do not want to revert back to the failed policy of abstinence only, and I do not want mothers faced with likely death to be forced through their pregnancy.

What I do want is more support for struggling women. I believe in investing money in the research of ectogenesis so that we could replace most unwanted pregnancy abortions with artificial womb transfers. I also believe in making post and pre maternal physiological help cheaper, if not free (Socialist! Socialist!) for all pregnant mothers and their SO.

Of course, being anti-abortion, I also want to see the practice of abortion destroyed. That might not settle well with most of my liberal brothers and sisters, but I just feel that it's an unacceptable practice, unless when the mother's life is in danger.

It sits ok with me. I am pro-choice. But I'm not pro-abortion. And it drives me batty when my liberal sisters and brothers refer to the foetus as nothing more than a clump of cells. That may be how they view it, but it's not an objective truth, it's a subjective viewpoint. The woman who wants a child mourns the loss of that same clump of cells.

If we really could transfer unwanted foetuses into artificial wombs I would be all for that, tho I suspect that's a long ways away. And I totally support more services for struggling women who might choose abortion because they can't afford the child. And increase sex ed so that kids know what they're getting themselves into. And make contraceptives easily available. I'd also revamp our adoption system to make it easier to adopt.

What I would love is that instead of the two sides fighting over the morality of abortion, we work together to make it so that the cases of unwanted pregnancies is minimized and pregnant women know that they have resources and support structures should they want to bring the pregnancy to term. If we could do all that, then the pro-lifers could start talking to me about the immorality of abortions and I might agree. Until then, I just don't think we can judge when so many women (and girls!) are between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I see myself as being anti-abortion, but not to the extent that I'd want it outlawed. (Except in the case where it's obvious that the fetus/baby can feel pain.) If we could change the circumstances which cause people to believe that abortion is their only option, I think (or at least hope) that it would dramatically decrease the amount of
abortions.

On the other hand, I think there are some people that will only ever see it as destroying an inconvienent mass of cells. (A woman I knew who was, in many ways, conservative, used to get abortions because she felt that birth control was too 'bothersome'.)

 

[lilithu]

I see myself as being anti-abortion, but not to the extent that I'd want it outlawed. (Except in the case where it's obvious that the fetus/baby can feel pain.)

Yes, I forgot to mention that. In my view, abortions should only be legal up to 6 months. After that, only if the mother's life is in danger.

(A woman I knew who was, in many ways, conservative, used to get abortions because she felt that birth control was too 'bothersome'.)

She should be sterilized. And I'm serious.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

She should be sterilized. And I'm serious.

The very scary thing was that she went on to marry and have children. The last I heard of her, she was working as a nurse and partying on her off-hours while the kids were being raised by the nanny, primarily. I think that that's probably healthier for the children than having her raise them.

There are not many people I think ill of for extended periods of time. But when I think of this woman's history, especially in light of the struggles of so many other people to have children, it makes me feel quite angry.

 

[des]

I would categorize myself as anti-abortion and pro-choice. I think it is a very sad decision, but sometimes it is the only one. The only thing that will actually bring down abortions is services and care for famililes and children. I think it is telling that there were fewer abortions during the Clinton administration than the anti-abortion Bush administration, attributable to lack of funding and services.

I think the term pro-life is very deceptive in a group that is often very pro-war, pro-death penalty, and only supports the life of the fetus-- and not the child, etc.

--des

 

[lilithu]

I don't like the term "pro-life" used in reference to the abortion debate. To me it paints people of dissenting opinions as "anti-life", which we all know is not the case. After all, aren't we the ones sick of the wars and revenge killings?

I think the term pro-life is very deceptive in a group that is often very pro-war, pro-death penalty, and only supports the life of the fetus-- and not the child, etc.

Well to be fair to the pro-lifers... they don't mean pro-life in all respects, just this issue. Just as pro-choice doesn't mean pro-choice in all respects. (Tho liberals are generally pro-choice in most things.)

The term-pro life is brilliant framing. It automatically makes it sound like anyone against them is anti-life. It makes it clear what they feel is at stake. Every time you say pro-life, you are forced to remember that there's a life of a foetus involved, and that's what they want. Plus if they had stuck with the label "anti-abortion" it would sound more like they are against women being able to choose (which they are). In terms of framing, you never want to be the anti anything. You want to be the pro. It sounds more positive.

Doesn't pro-peace sound a lot more positive than anti-war?

 

[Djamila]

I agree with your views, GeneCosta.

I am anti-abortion, personally, I just don't believe the government should be involved in legislating the legality or illegality of such a thing. It's too dangerous - you could end up with women being charged with murder because of a miscarriage or something... or you could have women being forced to abort because of social stigmas attached to some abnormality in the unborn child.

I think government regulations should stay away from babies until they're born.

 

[Francine]

Instead I prefer to call myself an anti-abortion liberal. I believe ALL killings outside of defence of the self or another are wrong (in regard to humans, and to a lesser extent animals -- but that's for another topic).

There's no pro-abortion anybody, liberal or conservative. Many people are in favor of keeping the option legal and on the table, but that doesn't mean there's a gang of women who go out and get pregnant so they can have abortions for fun.

 

[doppelganger]

I'm an anti-abortion liberal. I think there should definitely be fewer unwanted pregnancies and fewer abortions. I oppose making abortion illegal though or morally condemning others for it, because that doesn't reduce abortions and increases the risks of death and serious injury to women. The two major factors that reduce abortions are sex education/contraception and reducing poverty.

 

[Sunstone]

I wish abortions were rare (and safe), but I am adamantly against making them illegal. To make them illegal does not seem to significantly reduce their occurrence, and merely makes them unsafe. Sex ed, birth control, and prosperity reduce their occurrence.

 

[Mister_T]

Wow, I thought I was the only anti-abortion liberal.

I am an anti abortion liberal for many of the reasons my liberal brothers and sisters have listed. I think abortions should only be used in extreme cases. Nowdays, they hand out abortions like candy.

"What? You're pregnant because you failed to use birth control...have an abortion!" I honestly grow tired of people using this as form of birth control. It doesn't take much effort to pop a birth control pill, put on a condom or pull out.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I'm opposed to abortion personally but unequivocally pro-choice. We should have fewer abortions but criminalizing it would do more harm than good.

Look at a chart of abortion rates, and one of unemployment rates: the graphs are all but identical. Give women resources to care for a child and less will choose abortion.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not sure what it would mean for me to be anti-abortion, since it's not possible for me to get pregnant and it's been many years since I've done anything that could impregnate somebody else.

I do think abortion is always tragic and often morally wrong. I think it's morally wrong to screen a fetus for disease and to abort a fetus found to have, say, spina bifida or Down's syndrome. I think it's irresponsible not to use contraception first, and to rely on abortion as your main form of birth control.

However, I really, seriously don't believe a woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term against her will, so I think abortion should be legal in almost all circumstances, and certainly for the first two trimesters. I really do think the best person to make the decision is the pregnant woman herself, and I don't think it's my business to second-guess her.

A number of my friends have had more than one abortion. Usually, two. Some feel guilty, and some don't. Some have regrets, and some don't. I don't judge any of them over it.

If somebody close to me told me she was pregnant and thinking about an abortion, I'd probably try to talk her out of it. But then, our circle of friends is pretty frank.

 

[Draka]

I have always been personally against abortion being used as a form of birth control. I ,however, am legally pro-choice because I feel there are circumstances out there that a woman might be dealing with that would lead her to consider having an abortion. I am not about to sit and judge someone else for their heartwrenching decision. Just because I might not do something in my own life doesn't make me the authority of what someone else should do.

Also, I can't be opposed to the screening for defects and such. In all honesty, I don't know if I would do that well at coping with such news if it were given to me. And, acknowledging that, I certainly could not blame or judge anyone else if they decided on an abortion due to those circumstances. I have to painfully admit to myself that I might even consider it given those certain circimstances. If I was told that the child I was carrying was going to be horribly disfigured and always suffer severe medical problems, or other such traumatic news, it would devastate me and I honestly don't know how I would handle it. So I hope I don't have to find out.

 

[Somkid]

Well, I'm definitely not a liberal but than again I'm not political at all except I believe it is time for a revolution and time "to refresh the tree of liberty". I think a person has a right to do with their body as they see fit after all it is the one thing you truly own and have possession of from birth to death. I feel abortion in wrong in the case of birth control if you screw up take the morning after pill but you should have taken better precautions in the first place. But, I don't know I think its time for people to mind their own business and stop trying to dictate their principals and morals to others.

 

[lilithu]

For all the people who talk about how they morally object to abortion being used as birth control, can someone actually provide statistics as to how common it is? Given how much people talk about it, one would think it's an epidemic.

 

[Fluffy]

From Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States by the Guttmacher Institute (emphasis added):

• Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9]
• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[9]
• Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[9]

Also relevant (emphasis added):

• Each year, about two out of every 100 women aged 15–44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.

The Guttmacher Institute is a non-profit organization which works to advance reproductive health as defined by the World Health Organization.

It is a member of

The Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the U.S. affiliate of IPPF and one of its larger members. PPFA provides both reproductive health and maternal and child health services. The organization's status as the United States' leading provider of surgical abortions has put it in the forefront of national debate over that issue. Planned Parenthood Action Fund (PPAF) advocates pro-choice positions, comprehensive sex education, and open expression of sexuality in U.S. politics.

 

[Francine]

For all the people who talk about how they morally object to abortion being used as birth control, can someone actually provide statistics as to how common it is? Given how much people talk about it, one would think it's an epidemic.

Table 1. Number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44, by year

 

[lilithu]

Table 1. Number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44, by year

The numbers of total abortions don't prove anything. I was asking specifically about those who were using it for birth control.

Fluffy's numbers speak to that and are a lot higher than I had thought they would be. Based on the reasons given, it's clear we need more comprehensive sex ed.