Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

[Revoltingest]

I read some reports that it was staged and orchestrated by NOM and Focus on the Family. Savage has given similar speeches before, so it could have been staged.

Maybe Savage is a Poe, & works for Xian fundies to discredit the cause he nominally supports, eh?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe Savage is a Poe, & works for Xian fundies to discredit the cause he nominally supports, eh?

Maybe Savage feels strongly enough about the issue that his emotions overwhelm his sense of tact.

If I was confronted with a group of people whose actions were contributing to the deaths of children but seemed unwilling to change their behaviour, I might just say some inappropriate things, too.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe Savage feels strongly enough about the issue that his emotions overwhelm his sense of tact.
If I was confronted with a group of people whose actions were contributing to the deaths of children but seemed unwilling to change their behaviour, I might just say some inappropriate things, too.

Yeah, that too.
But I was responding in kind to Cynthia's speculation.
I notice that people often speculate about possible reasons behind things,
not because these reasons are likely or evidenced, but rather because they make the other side look bad.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Look at the video again people, especially starting a 0:20. Those kids started walking out before he called the Bible bull poopoo.

It was staged.

 

[HerDotness]

Look at the video again people, especially starting a 0:20. Those kids started walking out before he called the Bible bull poopoo.

It was staged.

I did, and the video zooms in on ONE girl who started leaving at about 0:20 immediately after Savage said the Bible is wrong.

That likely was enough for her to decide she didn't want to hear any more. I've known plenty of people who'd have done the same thing in reaction to no more than that.

I think you are really wrong to claim the walkout was staged based upon just this one student (as far as we can determine from this video) leaving at that point.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I did, and the video zooms in on ONE girl who started leaving at about 0:20 immediately after Savage said the Bible is wrong.

That likely was enough for her to decide she didn't want to hear any more. I've known plenty of people who'd have done the same thing in reaction to no more than that.

I think you are really wrong to claim the walkout was staged based upon just this one student (as far as we can determine from this video) leaving at that point.

Could it have been one girl decided to leave, and then others who were offended followed suit because one person did it first?

 

[Revoltingest]

Could it have been one girl decided to leave, and then others who were offended followed suit because one person did it first?

One person going first makes it easier for those who follow.

 

[HerDotness]

Could it have been one girl decided to leave, and then others who were offended followed suit because one person did it first?

One person going first makes it easier for those who follow.

Could easily be.

There also might well be merit to the belief expressed earlier on the thread that one teacher led students to walk out after that.

I expect that had I been a teacher supervising students from my journalism class at this convention, I might well have decided that insisting we all leave would have been job security, as many parents as would be outraged that I allowed the students to sit there listening to that language and blatant criticism of the Bible.

It's simply wrong, however, to claim that the whole walkout was staged based upon no more than one girl being shown to have gone first.

 

[gnomon]

The walkout has the appearance of being staged because it is only from one school that these students were from and that they walked out so quickly.

But at least that proves they were not a captive audience.

 

[Kathryn]

In other words, it's fine to disregard what the Bible says when you'd rather not do it. I get it. You yourself suggest that the heart should be outwardly reflected "from dress to what we say," so I find it curious that it's apparently okay to lay on the bling.

No matter that the Bible says a Christian woman should dress modestly and focus upon inner beauty so as not to put more emphasis on the exterior than the interior.

It's okay, apparently, for a Christian woman to have that elaborately colored hairstyle, engagement rock and diamond-loaded band as long as her focus is upon goodness and humility.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

I didn't say that, for starters.

I do dress modestly. I can't help what others do.

 

[Kathryn]

I must say I get a laugh out of some of these replies by people who think criticizing the Bible constitutes bullying. That calling out people on their hypocrisy is bullying. I do think Savage could have worded his criticisms better, and the "pansy-SSSS" thing was ill thought-out.

But is that bullying? No. Let me tell you what bullying is. Take, for instance, Kenneth Weishuhn, the 14 year old from Iowa who recently took his life. After coming out, he received death threats.

Kenneth Weishuhn, Gay Iowa Teen, Commits Suicide After Allegedly Receiving Death Threats

Or go back a few months to Jamey Rodemeyer's suicide. Not only was he taunted mercilessly when alive, but after his death his sister had to hear kids say things like "We're glad he's dead." Essentially, these nasty little sh*its (and that's the kindest word I could think to use) were killing him again after he was already dead.

Jamey Rodemeyer's Sister Talks About the 'We're Glad You're Dead' Chants at Homecoming Dance: VIDEO |Gay News|Gay Blog Towleroad

Or take the account mentioned by Evangelical Tony Campollo, who mentions when he was in high school a bunch of boys cornered a gay kid and urinated on him in the locker room--he took his life shortly after. (Let me point out I do not agree with other sentiments expressed in this video, including those of the uber-bully Santorum).

[youtube]fZ7GLRNNJgA[/youtube]
Rogers Story - YouTube

So, what is bullying? In all these cases, the kids were terrorized, dehumanized, and humiliated REPEATEDLY, to the point where they felt there was no more hope and death was the only way out.

You think criticizing the Bible and calling someone a "pansy-****" in an hour or so long speech constitutes bullying? Were these kids humiliated repeatedly for their beliefs to the point where they felt death was the only out? No!

It seems to me when it comes to the real definition of bullying, a lot of people don't have a f*****g clue.

No one is saying that gay kids aren't bullied in school - they are. So are lots of other kids, for lots of other reasons. No one is defending such behavior.

I was bullied incessantly myself in the sixth and seventh grades - to the point of being afraid to go to school because I was being literally beat up nearly every day. It's a terrible situation for any kid.

That doesn't excuse the behavior of (as my son loves to say) a grown *** man giving what SHOULD be a professional speech to a group of high schoolers, who stoops to berating and mocking students who protest his speech peacefully by quietly getting up and walking out.

That's the point. Try not to lose it in all your hyperbole.

 

[Kathryn]

Here's an example of bullying -

The state has been considering passing a law restricting schools from even mentioning homosexuality except in very rare instances.

First, what kind of bat-**** crazy law is this? How will it be enforced? What are the consequences for just talking about being gay?

Second, anyone who thinks Savage's foot-in-mouth speech is anywhere near as bad as this legislative atrocity has got all kinds of priorities mixed up.

Third, i see no discussions (again) that are impassioned about the state passing bullcrap ordinances such as this while people can become so enraged over a speech. A speech.

One more time, tell me, who are the one's that are really getting bullied here?

I'm not saying Savage is wrong and everyone else is right. I'm only saying Savage's use of mockery, sarcasm, and profanity directed at high school students in a speech supposedly OPPOSED to that sort of behavior is hypocritical and, well, tactless. And tacky. And immature. And unprofessional.

And I'm discussing it because it's an RF thread and hey, that's how I roll. Sometimes I get all caught up in rather trite things on RF - like most regulars. It's not like I'm planning on picketing his headquarters or anything. I save that sort of behavior for REAL issues.

 

[Kathryn]

I read some reports that it was staged and orchestrated by NOM and Focus on the Family. Savage has given similar speeches before, so it could have been staged.

Source please? Otherwise this is just like that old game "Gossip."

 

[HerDotness]

I can't help wondering if any of the kids from the Christian schools were coached: "if he says anything against God or the Bible, just get up and leave."

I very much doubt that any Christian schools except maybe for Roman Catholic or other mainstream Christian schools would have been there at all. Most of the independent Christian academies I've known of (associated with fundamentalist Christian churches not wishing their congregation's children to be exposed to the "evils" of public school) would not even think of sending students to a venue where an outspoken gay man like Savage was to speak.

He's not exactly known for advocating non-kinky sex only by couples, let's say.

Catholic schools might have sent students because they can be very openminded regarding what a gay man such as Savage might have to say about bullying even though homosexuality is considered a serious sin by the Catholic Church.

Then again, difficult to say since teachers and administrators at religious schools might decide that sending students to hear him speak could be taken as affirming his advocacy of all sorts of sex with more than one whoever. His reputation might overwhelm what he had to say about bullying in their eyes.

Edit to add: There may be a religious school equivalent of the National Scholastic Press Association. I don't know but know that there are some public school organizations duplicated for participation by religious private schools, to some extent probably to prevent students being exposed to unacceptable experiences such as a speech by Savage might be deemed to be.

 

[LeftishBritInPA]

Not to get too off topic, but speaking of Bullies:

Mitt Romney Outed As Anti-Gay High School Bully | ThinkProgress

Last year’s string of heartbreaking suicides by young members of the LGBT community who had been bullied by their classmates led hundreds of celebrities, sports teams, politicians and ordinary citizens to record “It Gets Better” videos. Even President Obama recorded one.
One politician who has not: Mitt Romney, who has been relatively silent on the issue. This morning, a story in The Washington Post reveals that the presidential candidate engaged in bullying behavior during his days at a prestigious preparatory school in Michigan:
John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.
[…]
A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.
Jason Horowitz spoke with five students who attended Cranbrook School at the same time as Romney, and all of them independently recalled the same story. Mitt Romney was asked about the Post’s story during a live radio broadcast with Fox News host Brian Kilmeade, apologizing before explaining that he didn’t remember many of the details of what took place: “Back in high school, I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize for that…I don’t remember that incident,” Romney said, laughing. “I certainly don’t believe that I thought the fellow was homosexual. That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s, so that was not the case.”
It seems odd that Romney would not recall such a bizarre event, especially since so many other students who were asked about it painted clear pictures of what transpired, but perhaps such “hijinks and pranks” were so frequent he has simply lost track of them all.
A separate incident, in which Romney ridiculed a closeted gay classmate by sarcastically praising him with “atta girl!” comments, helps paint a troubling picture for the Republican Party’s presumptive presidential nominee. To date, Romney has not stepped forward to support any bills that seek to protect LGBT students from the kind of bullying that Romney himself participated in while in high school.
But the presumptive Republican nominee has made it clear where he stands on LGBT rights today, 50 years after the incident. Just this week he again affirmed his position that gay couples should not receive equal recognition under the law as straight couples do.
This all stands in stark contrast with President Obama, who less than 24 hours ago became the first sitting occupant of the Oval Office to endorse same sex marriage.

 

[Kathryn]

It's very common for groups of men to call each other "ladies" as in, "OK, listen up, ladies!" I guess we need to put a stop to that.

While we're at it, let's outlaw those crazy costumes with the grass skirts and coconut tops that some guys wear on Halloween or to tiki parties. They're really quite offensive.

(Actually that's not a bad idea...)

 

[Revoltingest]

Not to get too off topic, but speaking of Bullies:
Mitt Romney Outed As Anti-Gay High School Bully | ThinkProgress

It seems that Obama has something in common with Mitt
He also liked to bully.
Obama Bullied And Shoved A Little Black Girl

I prefer to focus upon what kind of person each one has become as a mature adult.
But if you want to play it safe, then vote for Libertarian, Gary Johnson instead.

 

[Seymour]

I'm not saying Savage is wrong and everyone else is right. I'm only saying Savage's use of mockery, sarcasm, and profanity directed at high school students in a speech supposedly OPPOSED to that sort of behavior is hypocritical and, well, tactless. And tacky. And immature. And unprofessional.

I think this sums up the opinion of many reasonable individuals. You cannot end bullying by more bullying.

Of course I have come to note that in Newspeak "bullying" has come to specifically mean making fun of a gay person. It seems that it has less and less to do with protecting smaller, younger, or physically weaker kids from attack by those school denizens (I won't call them "students") who have a lot of brawn, not much brain, and a predilection to amuse themselves by ridiculing and beating up on their betters. My cousin, who's 5'4" was beat up by three blacks at his school for no good reason. They got one day's after-school detention.

"Anti-bullying" is all about the pro-gay agenda in the school system, and nothing else.

 

[gnomon]

I think this sums up the opinion of many reasonable individuals. You cannot end bullying by more bullying.

Of course I have come to note that in Newspeak "bullying" has come to specifically mean making fun of a gay person. It seems that it has less and less to do with protecting smaller, younger, or physically weaker kids from attack by those school denizens (I won't call them "students") who have a lot of brawn, not much brain, and a predilection to amuse themselves by ridiculing and beating up on their betters. My cousin, who's 5'4" was beat up by three blacks at his school for no good reason. They got one day's after-school detention.

"Anti-bullying" is all about the pro-gay agenda in the school system, and nothing else.

Changing the meaning of terms on the fly is a standard methodology on this forum.

Welcome to RF.

 

[dawny0826]

I'm not saying Savage is wrong and everyone else is right. I'm only saying Savage's use of mockery, sarcasm, and profanity directed at high school students in a speech supposedly OPPOSED to that sort of behavior is hypocritical and, well, tactless. And tacky. And immature. And unprofessional.

And I'm discussing it because it's an RF thread and hey, that's how I roll. Sometimes I get all caught up in rather trite things on RF - like most regulars. It's not like I'm planning on picketing his headquarters or anything. I save that sort of behavior for REAL issues.

Thank you. You said what I was trying to convey.