Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

[MysticSang'ha]

All I'm saying is that when your message is anti-bullying, if you want to be construed as a credible, non-hypocritical speaker on the matter, you might have better luck with the "opposition" - if you appeal in a way that doesn't come back at them in a bullying/offensive manner.

I'm not really bothered so much by what he said. But, if the message was "anti-bullying", he failed...if audience members felt bullied or attacked.

When people are walking out of a talk...he's gone a little too far as far as those folks were concerned. To them, it was hurtful or angering. How can he justify the way that he's been treated by mistreating others, despite the point that he's trying to drive home regarding biblical hypocrisies. He made blanket label assumptions about his audience, which is arrogant and rude.

He stated that he was defending himself. Who in that audience bullied him directly?

My first response in this thread was a summary of part of your point. He failed to further the cause of influencing public opinion on anti-bullying measures concerning GLBTQ's. I get that.

My larger question was how do we attack the ridiculous - and yes I said ridiculous - notion that anti-bullying measures are fine unless it's against queer bashing since it's contrary to what their holy book says?

So we have people who are actively speaking out FOR bashing queers because it's their religious duty to, AND they're speaking out that they should be protected under the First Amendment to bash queers.

That's a terrifying world to live in as a gay or lesbian or trans teen.

Savage tried to attack the source of the religious-pro-queer-bashing crowd...not the holy book itself, but the hypocrisy of it's use in literal application by this same crowd.....and kids walked out. They walked out because they thought their faith was being attacked. They were mistaken if they thought he was attacking an entire faith. Savage had a knee-jerk emotional response perhaps because he thought they were walking out for the reasons of free speech protection by the religious-pro-queer-bashing-sort.

Bad move on his part. Got it. He apologized. Whether they accept it or not is up to them.

All this focus on how badly Dan Savage represented the anti-bullying movement though is missing the bigger picture. Can the guy make a mistake or what?

 

[dawny0826]

My first response in this thread was a summary of part of your point. He failed to further the cause of influencing public opinion on anti-bullying measures concerning GLBTQ's. I get that.

My larger question was how do we attack the ridiculous - and yes I said ridiculous - notion that anti-bullying measures are fine unless it's against queer bashing since it's contrary to what their holy book says?

So we have people who are actively speaking out FOR bashing queers because it's their religious duty to, AND they're speaking out that they should be protected under the First Amendment to bash queers.

That's a terrifying world to live in as a gay or lesbian or trans teen.

Savage tried to attack the source of the religious-pro-queer-bashing crowd...not the holy book itself, but the hypocrisy of it's use in literal application by this same crowd.....and kids walked out. They walked out because they thought their faith was being attacked. They were mistaken if they thought he was attacking an entire faith. Savage had a knee-jerk emotional response perhaps because he thought they were walking out for the reasons of free speech protection by the religious-pro-queer-bashing-sort.

Bad move on his part. Got it. He apologized. Whether they accept it or not is up to them.

All this focus on how badly Dan Savage represented the anti-bullying movement though is missing the bigger picture. Can the guy make a mistake or what?

I watched the video. His "apology" was another sarcastic rub.

This is about someone who purposefully went out of his way to make a point about bullying but bullied in the process.

I'm not missing any bigger picture, here. He hasn't acknowledged that he made a mistake. If your apology is insincere, you project justification for your actions.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I watched the video. His "apology" was another sarcastic rub.

This is about someone who purposefully went out of his way to make a point about bullying but bullied in the process.

I'm not missing any bigger picture, here. He hasn't acknowledged that he made a mistake. If your apology is insincere, you project justification for your actions.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Dawny. If people want to scapegoat him and his entire It Gets Better project for a stupid move he made, and don't like his apology, they're free to do so.

 

[gnomon]

I watched the video. His "apology" was another sarcastic rub.

This is about someone who purposefully went out of his way to make a point about bullying but bullied in the process.

I'm not missing any bigger picture, here. He hasn't acknowledged that he made a mistake. If your apology is insincere, you project justification for your actions.

You need to justify your claims. You and others are purposely ignoring what was actually said and calling it bullying.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

BTW, I don't see anyone calling for the kids who walked out of an anti-bullying speech to apologize to queer kids who were in the audience who are being actively bullied.

Big picture. BIG picture here.

 

[Father Heathen]

Ask them. Btw do you really want to ban wearing crosses in school?

If it should be okay to promote a religion, then it should be equality okay to critique and scrutinize it as well. This is sort of double standards we're talking about. Why do a lot of religious people think they're entitled to special privileges?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If it should be okay to promote a religion, then it should be equality okay to critique and scrutinize it as well. This is sort of double standards we're talking about.

Yes.

When I see more of a push to defend a faith than a push to defend young teens, I'm raising a major stink about that.

 

[dawny0826]

We'll have to agree to disagree, Dawny. If people want to scapegoat him and his entire It Gets Better project for a stupid move he made, and don't like his apology, they're free to do so.

That's not what I was doing.

I simply pointed out that he didn't make an apology.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes.

When I see more of a push to defend a faith than a push to defend young teens, I'm raising a major stink about that.

Just replace "atheist" with "homosexual" or whoever else they take issue with.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That's not what I was doing.

I simply pointed out that he didn't make an apology.

I disagree. He did make an apology. It just hasn't been acceptable.

I also don't think he bullied anybody. I don't hear any children being afraid to go to an assembly about anti-bullying. He made an *** out of himself.

One more time....can the man make a mistake?

 

[Father Heathen]

Also, criticizing ideas or beliefs isn't the same as attacking individuals.

If someone were running around claiming that 2+2=5, would correcting their math constitute a personal attack?

 

[Revoltingest]

Also, criticizing ideas or beliefs isn't the same as attacking individuals.
If someone were running around claiming that 2+2=5, would correcting their math constitute a personal attack?

But it gets tricky when some people treat beliefs & even things as so sacred that to dis either is to risk their deadly wrath. (I won't name names.)
Sure, sure, it's not the same, but it's wise to consider the similarities. Suicide & murder both have victims.

 

[Father Heathen]

But it gets tricky when some people treat beliefs & even things as so sacred that to dis either is to risk their deadly wrath. (I won't name names.)
Sure, sure, it's not the same, but it's wise to consider the similarities. Suicide & murder both have victims.

When people demand respect for their own views while refusing to reciprocate it for others, their hypocrisy shouldn't be humored. It only serves to reinforce their double standards and their sense of entitlement.

People have a right to their beliefs, and should be left in peace. But if they're not leaving others in peace and are using their beliefs to justify actions such as intimidation, harassment, abuse and assault, then it's time to speak up and call out the ********.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

But it gets tricky when some people treat beliefs & even things as so sacred that to dis either is to risk their deadly wrath. (I won't name names.)
Sure, sure, it's not the same, but it's wise to consider the similarities. Suicide & murder both have victims.

Good point. Everyone should respect my thigh high boots. If anyone doesn't respect my thigh high boots, I'll enact legislation to have them exiled, fired, jailed, tortured, or put to death. I'll get started on editing my Mystic Manifesto to include these laws right away (it was too cheery as it was).

 

[Revoltingest]

Good point. Everyone should respect my thigh high boots. If anyone doesn't respect my thigh high boots, I'll enact legislation to have them exiled, fired, jailed, tortured, or put to death. I'll get started on editing my Mystic Manifesto to include these laws right away (it was too cheery as it was).

Even the wearers of leather boots & Hawaiian shirts may gather together & break bread without breaking heads.
I'll bring some bacon & mayo for the bread too.

Btw, the Mystic Manifesto is perfect as is.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Even the wearers of leather boots & Hawaiian shirts may gather together & break bread without breaking heads.
I'll bring some bacon & mayo for the bread too.

Btw, the Mystic Manifesto is perfect as is.

But, but, but....I want to be an all powerful dominionist entity too that the other big kids get to have. They get to establish a list of "Thou Shalt Not"....why can't I?". :sad4:

That's not fair.

*sits with Revoltingest, has some bacon, and pouts silently*

 

[Revoltingest]

But, but, but....I want to be an all powerful dominionist entity too that the other big kids get to have. They get to establish a list of "Thou Shalt Not"....why can't I?". :sad4:
That's not fair.
*sits with Revoltingest, has some bacon, and pouts silently*

Did you forget that you're allowed to have multiple manifestos?
I look forward to Mystic Manifesto 2.0.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Did you forget that you're allowed to have multiple manifestos?
I look forward to Mystic Manifesto 2.0.

Really?

I'll need a prophet. I'll post the audition notice by the end of the day.

 

[A Troubled Man]

He crossed the line when he criticized the Bible, that should always be inexcusable in a public school. Separation of church and state, and it's discriminatory.

Ask them. Btw do you really want to ban wearing crosses in school?

crosses are either a personal statement of faith or a fashion statement

Contradict much?

 

[A Troubled Man]

You quell hatred by presenting truth in a respectful manner. He presented himself in a hypocritical and arrogant manner in terms of his "anti-bullying" stance.

If people felt personally attacked, he's a hypocrite. You can't discount how others feel, whether you agree with them or not.

Guy calls Bible BS. Some people choose to leave.

I see no problem on either side... why is this thread 12 pages long, and more importantly why is this news?

While I'm almost sure your question is rhetorical, it's really easy to see how believers will jump on any opportunity to play the victim card and call others hypocritical and arrogant in light of their own beliefs, how they are presented in the public square and the effects they cause to others.