Another thread on Islam, Muslims and terrorism, because its needed for some

[Revoltingest]

Currently, Islamic terrorism is more of a concern to many than other sources. But it is far from being the only source, or even the most deadly one.

How is this known?
Looking at world wide terrorism, Islamic terrorism is pretty common.
Ref...
List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia

But I'd add that China's government might qualify as a greater source,
ironically with it directed at Muslims. State terrorism is still terrorism.

 

[firedragon]

You must have missed the RF Rule concerning this, as I already explained to you about the difference between opinion and fact in Religion

But this is fact. Just plain text.

 

[stvdv]

But this is fact. Just plain text.

All below is how I see this, so it's my opinion:

1) YES. It is plain text, BUT any plain text is open to interpretation/opinion. A 6 year old will interpret the words different than a vedantist or Seer

2) When replying to your quote, I need the liberty to assume that you meant to say: "But this is fact. Just plain text (IMO), don't you think so?"

Stating one's opinions as facts (it's a fact that this verse is just plain text) blocks any communication, but IF that is what you wish, I am fine with it

IF you agree to the above THEN I am able to continue
IF you disagree to the above THEN I see no use to reply again to you

Just let me know

 

[firedragon]

All below is how I see this, so it's my opinion:

1) YES. It is plain text, BUT any plain text is open to interpretation. A 6 year old will interpret the words different than a scholar or an Avatar

2) While replying to your quote, I took the liberty to assume that you meant to say: "But this is fact. Just plain text (IMO), don't you think so?"

IF you agree to the above THEN I will continue
IF you disagree to the above THEN I see no use to reply again to you

Just let me know

If you make a sentence "I love rock" and I quote you saying "I love rock", its not an opinion, its just repeating what you said.

Thus, it will be nonsensical of me to say "stvdv said "I love rock" (in my opinion). Brother, it was you who is giving your opinion.

Here you go. Arabic text. Pure plain text.

 

[firedragon]

Brother, that is just your assumption, based on your belief.

See brother. Let me just give you one example of you stating an opinion.

The text does not say "vision" or that "God came" or "anyone came in a vision" for that matter. The words are not there. Thus it is you making an opinion non-existent in the text.

Anyway, "I am seeing in a dream" can very well mean "I have a vision, being a Divine Vision, Granted by God", like in "God showed me by vision". Sometimes God shows by vision, sometimes by word. And in Koran I could imagine God does not assume a form or name or words, because Allah has no form. So, seeing in a dream might be all what was given. Always difficult to interpret. But at least the lesson is quite clear.

All of that is your opinion. Non-existent in the text. And then you are invoking Forum Rules that I must abide by by putting IMO within brackets where as you are stating many opinions with out any of that. Honestly I did not expect that type of discussion from you.

Hope you understand.

 

[stvdv]

Anyway, "I am seeing in a dream" can very well mean "I have a vision, being a Divine Vision, Granted by God", like in "God showed me by vision".

All of that is your opinion. Non-existent in the text.

Of course that is my interpretation, as well as it's your opinion that "my opinion is non-existent in the text"
That is just because you don't have my vision, you have your vision, and I have mine; do NOT judge the other

And that is my whole point, reading verses in any scripture means interpretation, opinion, subjective
Spiritual life is about our personal journey/path ... it is not about right and wrong
And that is what Jesus meant "thou shall not judge" IMO

You are free to disagree with my opinion and you are free to have your own opinion.

BUT you are not free to impose your opinion on me
I hope you understand that

 

[stvdv]

If you make a sentence "I love rock" and I quote you saying "I love rock", its not an opinion, its just repeating what you said.

NO. You totally miss the point. I have different vision, I see more in these words than you. And you impose your limited view on me. That is wrong.

I always say "this is my opinion", and you state your interpretation of a verse as a fact, again that is wrong. You should say "it's my opinion"
That is what RF Rules clearly say. Always make clear that it's your interpretation, so your opinion, when giving your view on a certain verse

1+1=2

1+1=3

Both are true, and I can prove that the second is also true. Maybe you can't prove it, but IF you can't prove it THEN it does not mean that I am wrong

IF the other can't prove it, he should study more. Einstein could prove things that I can't prove. I would be a fool to thereby declare Einstein is wrong

And it's not my duty to prove anything. It is my duty to respect others, but I am free to disrespect others. But doing so does have consequences

I hope you understand all this

 

[firedragon]

Anyway, "I am seeing in a dream" can very well mean "I have a vision, being a Divine Vision, Granted by God", like in "God showed me by vision".

Thats your opinion brother, and you have a right to that. But again, the text doesnt say that.

Of course that is my interpretation, as well as it's your opinion that "my opinion is non-existent in the text"

Its just not there in plain sight. So you are trying your best to make it "an opinion". Please try and get out of this attempt. Its fruitless.

NO. You totally miss the point. I have different vision, I see more in these words than you. And you impose your limited view on me. That is wrong.

I always say "this is my opinion", and you state your interpretation of a verse as a fact, again that is wrong. You should say "it's my opinion"
That is what RF Rules clearly say. Always make clear that it's your interpretation, so your opinion, when giving your view on a certain verse

1+1=2

1+1=3

Both are true, and I can prove that the second is also true. Maybe you can't prove it, but IF you can't prove it THEN it does not mean that I am wrong

IF the other can't prove it, he should study more. Einstein could prove things that I can't prove. I would be a fool to thereby declare Einstein is wrong

And it's not my duty to prove anything. It is my duty to respect others, but I am free to disrespect others. But doing so does have consequences

I hope you understand all this

Yep. But you didnt say "that's my opinion" when you claimed that I am imposing what I believe in onto the text when I am just giving the text, directly, unadulterated to you.

You missed that.

Anyway, I will not discuss about this "opinion" matter once more brother. Hope you understand. If you want you can impose your opinion on anything.

Have a great day.

 

[stvdv]

"I am seeing in a dream" can very well mean ....

But this is fact. Just plain text.

Here you make your claim
So, you should be able to prove, that it is plain text and that it is NOT possible to interpret it differently. Good luck with that.

But you didnt say "that's my opinion" when you claimed that I am imposing what I believe in onto the text when I am just giving the text

I did say IMHO.

You missed that.

You are the one who missed it obviously. You are the one stating your opinion as a claim, I don't do that. I always say IMHO in all my replies.

Anyway, I will not discuss about this "opinion" matter once more brother. Hope you understand. If you want you can impose your opinion on anything.

You make the claim, imposing it on me in the first quote. Don't twist it around, that I impose my opinion on you. I write my opinion as an opinion
You are the one refusing to write your opinion as your opinion, and instead write your opinion as a claim

I gave my opinion. You are free to disagree. I do not impose my opinion on anything. That is you twisting words.
You don't understand the meaning of opinion IF you twist words in such a way, saying "now you impose your opinion on me"
You should say "I disagree with your opinion", that way you give your opinion as an opinion. But you refuse it; write it as a claim "this is a fact. plain text"

BUT I read your reply. You said that you will not discuss about this "opinion" matter ONCE more.
I am fine with that, finally. So, I expect you stick to your word, and then this is the end of it.

Have a great day

 

[firedragon]

So, you should be able to prove, that it is plain text and that it is NOT possible to interpret it differently. Good luck with that.

I am not interested in proving all of that because though I repeatedly said you seem to have missed that anyone can interpret any text the way they feel. I only said that what you think is your interpretation does not exist in the text.

I gave my opinion. You are free to disagree.

Brother. Why are you getting so angry? I didnt know this is so personal to you. Its just a discussion forum. Take it lightly.

Peace.

 

[stvdv]

I am not interested in proving all of that

Of course not, because that is impossible to prove

though I repeatedly said you seem to have missed that anyone can interpret any text the way they feel

No. That is not the point here. You stating your opinion as a claim, that is the problem here

I only said that what you think is your interpretation does not exist in the text.

Here you still state your opinion as a claim imposing it on me. You should say something like "I am not able to see it the way you see it"

 

[stvdv]

I gave my opinion. You are free to disagree

Brother. Why are you getting so angry? I didnt know this is so personal to you. Its just a discussion forum. Take it lightly.

This is another example where you state your opinion as a claim. This is a good example I can use to make it clear

You get the feeling that I get very angry (that is your feeling, this says nothing about me)

A good scientist will take the following steps before stating the above as a fact:
1) Double check his own feelings
2) Do not state his feeling as a fact yet
3) First do research to make sure if your feeling is a fact, which is simple in this case
3) He just asks me the question "Are you getting angry, because that is the feeling I get now?"

BUT what you are doing is the opposite; totally not scientific
3) You formulate the question in such a way as if it is already an established fact that "stvdv is angry" by saying
3) "Why are you getting so angry?"

You should leave the word "Why" OUT, then it is a proper unbiased question

The proper order to ask questions like this is:
1) Ask me first "Did you get angry, that is the vibe I am getting now?"
2) IF I answer "YES" THEN and only then you can ask "Why did you get angry?"

Do you see the difference?
It may seem insignificant to you, but it is not

 

[firedragon]

Of course not, because that is impossible to prove


No. That is not the point here. You stating your opinion as a claim, that is the problem here


Here you still state your opinion as a claim imposing it on me. You should say something like "I am not able to see it the way you see it"

Can you prove that I am imposing my belief onto the text? That was your claim.

 

[firedragon]

This is another example where you state your opinion as a claim. This is a good example I can use to make it clear

You get the feeling that I get very angry (that is your feeling, this says nothing about me)

A good scientist will take the following steps before stating the above as a fact:
1) Double check his own feelings
2) Do not state his feeling as a fact yet
3) First do research to make sure if your feeling is a fact, which is simple in this case
3) He just asks me the question "Are you getting angry, because that is the feeling I get now?"

BUT what you are doing is the opposite; totally not scientific
3) You formulate the question in such a way as if it is already an established fact that "stvdv is angry" by saying
3) "Why are you getting so angry?"

You should leave the word "Why" OUT, then it is a proper unbiased question

The proper order to ask questions like this is:
1) Ask me first "Did you get angry, that is the vibe I am getting now?"
2) IF I answer "YES" THEN and only then you can ask "Why did you get angry?"

Do you see the difference?
It may seem insignificant to you, but it is not

Oh. You seem very angry. (IMHO).

 

[stvdv]

Oh. You seem very angry. (IMHO).

Now you are overdoing it though. You need not do it double (though double is better than none)
IF you use the word "seem" THEN no need to add IMHO, because "you seem" is already taking the claim out

IF you would say "you are very angry" THEN you need to add "IM(H)O", because "you are" makes it a claim

But either way, I can assure you, that "I AM not angry nor have been angry during this whole conversation"
I am allowed to write this as a claim
Because I know for a fact how I feel

I am glad that it's clear now, because I was about to give up trying to explain this

Good to see you ALSO are not angry; assuming the smiley means "you are not angry"

I found out that I only get angry IF I allow someone to cross "the line"
That was not the case here, hence it was impossible to get angry at you
@stvdvRF

 

[stvdv]

Can you prove that I am imposing my belief onto the text? That was your claim.

I have no problem IF you impose your belief onto the text.
Just don't impose your belief on me, that is enough

BUT you are free to impose your belief on me of course
Then well .. you know what happens next
I continue explaining to you ....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Clinton and Lewinsky scandal was exposed on purpose to defame the presidency of the USA.

Right, right, but nobody feels the need to expose the conspiracy that there's no such thing as "islamic terrorism" and that's all a CIA / Mossad operation, because it is not big enough a scandal?

Please man.
Think it through will ya.....

This would be a scandal the size of which would DWARF a president being kinky.
Even in the prude US.

It's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[firedragon]

Now you are overdoing it though. You need not do it double (though double is better than none)
IF you use the word "seem" THEN no need to add IMHO, because "you seem" is already taking the claim out

IF you would say "you are very angry" THEN you need to add "IM(H)O", because "you are" makes it a claim

But either way, I can assure you, that "I AM not angry nor have been angry during this whole conversation"
I am allowed to write this as a claim
Because I know for a fact how I feel

I am glad that it's clear now, because I was about to give up trying to explain this


Good to see you ALSO are not angry; assuming the smiley means "you are not angry"

I found out that I only get angry IF I allow someone to cross "the line"
That was not the case here, hence it was impossible to get angry at you
@stvdvRF

Just kidding brother man. All good.