Another thread on Islam, Muslims and terrorism, because its needed for some

[firedragon]

I am opening this thread in order to discuss the topic above since it seems like an inevitable topic that seems to be brought up in simple and irrelevant threads with very irrelevant topics.

Why is it that you think that Muslims are terrorists or are the most numerous terrorists in the history of mankind or modern history that we can take note of? Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology? Is it innate to Muslims? Why do you think what you think?

It is a pertinent subject to discuss openly because honestly there are some muslims who try to apple polish all terrorists in order to save their theology from scrutiny, but there are also some people who seem to be in love with the Muslim Terrorist topic because they seem to bring it into any topic. Thus, maybe one could use this thread to discuss honestly and openly or even maybe use this thread to show their innate anger openly so that other threads may have its topic as an anchor.

Its interesting. Lets hear it.

 

[Polymath257]

You don't have to go back too far to see Christian terrorists in, for example, Ireland. Or Jewish terrorists at the King David hotel. Some of the original suicide bombers were Buddhist in Sri Lanka. We have white supremacist terrorism in the US.

People seem to resort to terrorism when they feel that they are not heard and that violence is the only way to get attention. If religion is added to this, they can feel that their opponents are evil and *deserve* to be killed.

Currently, Islamic terrorism is more of a concern to many than other sources. But it is far from being the only source, or even the most deadly one.

 

[exchemist]

I am opening this thread in order to discuss the topic above since it seems like an inevitable topic that seems to be brought up in simple and irrelevant threads with very irrelevant topics.

Why is it that you think that Muslims are terrorists or are the most numerous terrorists in the history of mankind or modern history that we can take note of? Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology? Is it innate to Muslims? Why do you think what you think?

It is a pertinent subject to discuss openly because honestly there are some muslims who try to apple polish all terrorists in order to save their theology from scrutiny, but there are also some people who seem to be in love with the Muslim Terrorist topic because they seem to bring it into any topic. Thus, maybe one could use this thread to discuss honestly and openly or even maybe use this thread to show their innate anger openly so that other threads may have its topic as an anchor.

Its interesting. Lets hear it.

For a start, very few people in my experience think all muslims are terrorists, or have terrorist inclinations, or that they are the most numerous in the history of mankind, or any other such strawman.

What is undeniable is that muslim terrorism is widespread in the world today.

As a result, many people's opinions of Islam have sunk to a low ebb.

As I understand it from the little reading I have done, most of this sorry state of affairs is due the the growth of a relatively modern movement, or movements, collectively known as "political islam".

Personally I am well-disposed towards islam, having had some contact with it in the Middle East (and of course there are many muslims where I live in south London). But I do think islam has got to get its house in order, by far more actively disowning some of the barbarities carried out in its name and the twisted ideology that lies behind them. It is time for moderate, spiritual islam to raise its head and its voice, I think.

 

[firedragon]

You don't have to go back too far to see Christian terrorists in, for example, Ireland. Or Jewish terrorists at the King David hotel. Some of the original suicide bombers were Buddhist in Sri Lanka. We have white supremacist terrorism in the US.

People seem to resort to terrorism when they feel that they are not heard and that violence is the only way to get attention. If religion is added to this, they can feel that their opponents are evil and *deserve* to be killed.

Currently, Islamic terrorism is more of a concern to many than other sources. But it is far from being the only source, or even the most deadly one.

I agree. But a small correction would be to state that the suicide bombers in this country called Sri Lanka was not by Buddhists but a Hindu/Christian/Leninist movement.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I am opening this thread in order to discuss the topic above since it seems like an inevitable topic that seems to be brought up in simple and irrelevant threads with very irrelevant topics.

Why is it that you think that Muslims are terrorists or are the most numerous terrorists in the history of mankind or modern history that we can take note of? Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology? Is it innate to Muslims? Why do you think what you think?

It is a pertinent subject to discuss openly because honestly there are some muslims who try to apple polish all terrorists in order to save their theology from scrutiny, but there are also some people who seem to be in love with the Muslim Terrorist topic because they seem to bring it into any topic. Thus, maybe one could use this thread to discuss honestly and openly or even maybe use this thread to show their innate anger openly so that other threads may have its topic as an anchor.

Its interesting. Lets hear it.

So this isn't about me, but what I have seen. I have noticed that in certain places certain groups are against immigration because they say that the immigrants to European countries (they are pretty much referring to muslims) will ruin the "culture" and bring crime and impose their Sharia law when they grow to a big enough number. So the idea is that muslims are an existential threat to "Western values" and are innately evil and terrorists.

These people who advocate such views tend to be on the far right of the political spectrum and sympathetic to that group that got together at Charlottesville. And this rhetoric also fits in with a certain agenda that they are trying to push that incorporates other arguments, such as there is a white genocide happening throughout the world.

Apart from them there are other religious people who portray Islam as evil so that they can perhaps convert muslims to their religion.

 

[firedragon]

For a start, very few people in my experience think all muslims are terrorists, or have terrorist inclinations, or that they are the most numerous in the history of mankind, or any other such strawman.

What is undeniable is that muslim terrorism is widespread in the world today.

As a result, many people's opinions of Islam have sunk to a low ebb.

As I understand it from the little reading I have done, most of this sorry state of affairs is due the the growth of a relatively modern movement, or movements, collectively known as "political islam".

Personally I am well-disposed towards islam, having had some contact with it in the Middle East (and of course there are many muslims where I live in south London). But I do think islam has got to get its house in order, by far more actively disowning some of the barbarities carried out in its name and the twisted ideology that lies behind them. It is time for moderate, spiritual islam to raise its head and its voice, I think.

Well. Thats a pretty decent post I believe.

I only object to the idea of spiritual Islam and Modern islam in need of a new rise. What I think is that fundamentalist Islam, and Extreme Islam must rise, because though you may see those phrases as monstrous, I see them from my point of view. I see extreme Islam as tolerant and fundamentalists to be of the fundamentals of Islam where it teaches no one should be forced in anything to do with religion or dheen, and the only ones who deserve death as a sentence are those who commit murder and more objectively, those who are called Al Fasadhin Fil Ardha or those who spread corruption in the land where they are explained to be those who murder innocent people mentioning the God's name.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

So this isn't about me, but what I have seen. I have noticed that in certain places certain groups are against immigration because they say that the immigrants to European countries (they are pretty much referring to muslims) will ruin the "culture" and bring crime and impose their Sharia law when they grow to a big enough number. So the idea is that muslims are an existential threat to "Western values" and are innately evil and terrorists.

These people who advocate such views tend to be on the far right of the political spectrum and sympathetic to that group that got together at Charlottesville. And this rhetoric also fits in with a certain agenda that they are trying to push that incorporates other arguments, such as there is a white genocide happening throughout the world.

Apart from them there are other religious people who portray Islam as evil so that they can perhaps convert muslims to their religion.

I do agree that some Muslims migrate to western countries in their quest to live the freedom and the values of human rights and then when they get there they try to spread the same values they escaped from. Well, some do. But there are also some Muslims who long for that life but are just wanting to go to work, make a living and bring up their children in the best manner possible.

There are hypocrites all over the world. There are genuine people too.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I do agree that some Muslims migrate to western countries in their quest to live the freedom and the values of human rights and then when they get there they try to spread the same values they escaped from. Well, some do. But there are also some Muslims who long for that life but are just wanting to go to work, make a living and bring up their children in the best manner possible.

There are hypocrites all over the world. There are genuine people too.

I fully agree with you. There are also so many other factors involved besides religion in immigration, such as socio political conditions that were in their home country, yet certain people focus on the religion. What I am trying to say in my previous post is that the anti muslim agenda is being partly pushes by White Supremacists on the internet. Those same people push the idea of a white genocide around the world and this islamophobia is used to support the argument.

 

[Polymath257]

So this isn't about me, but what I have seen. I have noticed that in certain places certain groups are against immigration because they say that the immigrants to European countries (they are pretty much referring to muslims) will ruin the "culture" and bring crime and impose their Sharia law when they grow to a big enough number. So the idea is that muslims are an existential threat to "Western values" and are innately evil and terrorists.

These people who advocate such views tend to be on the far right of the political spectrum and sympathetic to that group that got together at Charlottesville. And this rhetoric also fits in with a certain agenda that they are trying to push that incorporates other arguments, such as there is a white genocide happening throughout the world.

Apart from them there are other religious people who portray Islam as evil so that they can perhaps convert muslims to their religion.

Concern about immigrants having different cultural values is nothing new. It happens for every wave of immigrants, it seems. There is *always* a concern about assimilation, language, religion, and culture. This was just as true when the Irish immigrated to the US as when the Slavs did, as when the Latinos did, etc.

For western countries, there is a concern that democratic norms are not common in many places and the new immigrants *seem* to not adopt those norms. In particular, the fear about Sharia law is that some sort of theocracy will be pushed for (noting that a push for a Christian theocracy doesn't seem to be a concern). In the long run, however, things seem to work out.

 

[firedragon]

I fully agree with you. There are also so many other factors involved besides religion in immigration, such as socio political conditions that were in their home country, yet certain people focus on the religion. What I am trying to say in my previous post is that the anti muslim agenda is being partly pushes by White Supremacists on the internet. Those same people push the idea of a white genocide around the world and this islamophobia is used to support the argument.

I have to agree with you.

There is nothing called "white genocide". Its a myth. Thus, it is quite stupid honestly to claim "white genocide" if you are referring to it as I understand it. This kind of conspiracy theories are way way way too farfetched by this guy called Lane and I cant believe this was used so extensively. Its quite similar to the Arya superiority complex of the German war machine.

There indeed was colonisation by some countries which had people of white skin, but there were also colonisation done by those with "other types of skin". Its just that we are taking a small portion of history to demonise a whole set of people who represent a huge part of the world. When the Portuguese colonised some countries the British drove them away from those countries and colonised them themselves. And the Portuguese did that to the dutch. Thus, all three of them being "white" were fighting each other for territory. And prior to that other "colours" did the same. But the thing is, most recent and heavy colonisations came from "white countries", vis a vis, England, and to a lesser degree other countries like France. So people have this idea about the whites which are in recent memory. But as a grown up set of people we must think far and wide, not just with our narrow space.

All kinds of people push some kind of agenda. Not just white supremacists. Just because the white supremacists and their agenda is in the news, we must not forget other kind of so called "supremacists" which we tend to ignore.

Its absurd.

 

[Heyo]

I am opening this thread in order to discuss the topic above since it seems like an inevitable topic that seems to be brought up in simple and irrelevant threads with very irrelevant topics.

Why is it that you think that Muslims are terrorists or are the most numerous terrorists in the history of mankind or modern history that we can take note of? Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology? Is it innate to Muslims? Why do you think what you think?

It is a pertinent subject to discuss openly because honestly there are some muslims who try to apple polish all terrorists in order to save their theology from scrutiny, but there are also some people who seem to be in love with the Muslim Terrorist topic because they seem to bring it into any topic. Thus, maybe one could use this thread to discuss honestly and openly or even maybe use this thread to show their innate anger openly so that other threads may have its topic as an anchor.

Its interesting. Lets hear it.

The Problem with Islamic Fundamentalism are the Fundamentals of Islam

I don't know how right Harris is about this but his is a widespread opinion.

 

[firedragon]

yes very absurbed when you are ignoring the actual answers and still want to discuss the topic.

Nice. Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

The Problem with Islamic Fundamentalism are the Fundamentals of Islam

I don't know how right Harris is about this but his is a widespread opinion.

Must analyse in depth.

 

[exchemist]

Well. Thats a pretty decent post I believe.

I only object to the idea of spiritual Islam and Modern islam in need of a new rise. What I think is that fundamentalist Islam, and Extreme Islam must rise, because though you may see those phrases as monstrous, I see them from my point of view. I see extreme Islam as tolerant and fundamentalists to be of the fundamentals of Islam where it teaches no one should be forced in anything to do with religion or dheen, and the only ones who deserve death as a sentence are those who commit murder and more objectively, those who are called Al Fasadhin Fil Ardha or those who spread corruption in the land where they are explained to be those who murder innocent people mentioning the God's name.

Peace.

Well if fundamentalist Islam can be like that I would be delighted to see more of it, and I am sure so would many other people - so long as it doesn't cut its followers off from the rest of us.

It seems to me one of the difficulties Islam may have, in terms of its popular image, is that it has very little by the way of a hierarchy of authority. There seems to be nobody like, say, the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Chief Rabbi, who can make pronouncements to the world about what the faith says, to give a lead to the faithful and to provide reassurance to those who do not follow the faith about what it teaches to its followers. One reads reports from time to time about such-and-such a mosque, full of angry Serious Beards, calling down condemnation on the society in which we all live, but not much about any countervailing pronouncements asking people to live peacefully with their neighbours - which I am quite sure is often what is preached! I would be very happy to see some authority take to the airwaves to lead and explain. I'm sure it would help greatly, as people tend to fear what they do not understand.

 

[icehorse]

I am opening this thread in order to discuss the topic above since it seems like an inevitable topic that seems to be brought up in simple and irrelevant threads with very irrelevant topics.

Why is it that you think that Muslims are terrorists or are the most numerous terrorists in the history of mankind or modern history that we can take note of? Do you really think that Muslims are terrorists much more than anyone else from any movement or theology? Is it innate to Muslims? Why do you think what you think?

It is a pertinent subject to discuss openly because honestly there are some muslims who try to apple polish all terrorists in order to save their theology from scrutiny, but there are also some people who seem to be in love with the Muslim Terrorist topic because they seem to bring it into any topic. Thus, maybe one could use this thread to discuss honestly and openly or even maybe use this thread to show their innate anger openly so that other threads may have its topic as an anchor.

Its interesting. Lets hear it.

Most of the critics of Islam that I'm aware of are not too concerned about terrorism. A little bit, not too much. The main concern is that Islam teaches theocracy, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, tribalism, and so on. Overall a set of values very inconsistent with secular society.

 

[firedragon]

Well if fundamentalist Islam can be like that I would be delighted to more of it, and I am sure so would many other people - so long as it doesn't cut its followers off from the rest of us.

Yeah. I understand what you say. Thats why I said "me". There will be other types of fundamentalism. And I as a self proclaimed muslim do know of some of those. I dont disagree with you.

It seems to me one of the difficulties Islam may have, in terms of its popular image, is that it has very little by the way of a hierarchy of authority. There seems to be nobody like, say, the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Chief Rabbi, who can make pronouncements to the world about what the faith says, to give a lead to the faithful and to provide reassurance to those who do not follow the faith about what it teaches to its followers. One reads reports from time to time about such-and-such a mosque, full of angry Serious Beards, calling down condemnation on the society in which we all live, but not much about any countervailing pronouncements asking people to live peacefully with their neighbours - which I am quite sure is often what is preached! I would be very happy to see some authority take to the airwaves to lead and explain. I'm sure it would help greatly, as people tend to fear what they do not understand.

Haha. I cannot disagree with you. Its unfair.

 

[firedragon]

Most of the critics of Islam that I'm aware of are not too concerned about terrorism. A little bit, not too much. The main concern is that Islam teaches theocracy, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, tribalism, and so on. Overall a set of values very inconsistent with secular society.

Haha. I was expecting that actually. So please do quote the Quran for your statements. Lets see some lists you could cut and paste from some website that has them. Lets test them. Go on.

 

[exchemist]

Haha. I was expecting that actually. So please do quote the Quran for your statements. Lets see some lists you could cut and paste from some website that has them. Lets test them. Go on.

Haha! Icehorse is this forum's expert on dodgy far-right anti-muslim websites.

Popcorn time. Let the Games begin.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I have to agree with you.

There is nothing called "white genocide". Its a myth. Thus, it is quite stupid honestly to claim "white genocide" if you are referring to it as I understand it. This kind of conspiracy theories are way way way too farfetched by this guy called Lane and I cant believe this was used so extensively. Its quite similar to the Arya superiority complex of the German war machine.

There indeed was colonisation by some countries which had people of white skin, but there were also colonisation done by those with "other types of skin". Its just that we are taking a small portion of history to demonise a whole set of people who represent a huge part of the world. When the Portuguese colonised some countries the British drove them away from those countries and colonised them themselves. And the Portuguese did that to the dutch. Thus, all three of them being "white" were fighting each other for territory. And prior to that other "colours" did the same. But the thing is, most recent and heavy colonisations came from "white countries", vis a vis, England, and to a lesser degree other countries like France. So people have this idea about the whites which are in recent memory. But as a grown up set of people we must think far and wide, not just with our narrow space.

All kinds of people push some kind of agenda. Not just white supremacists. Just because the white supremacists and their agenda is in the news, we must not forget other kind of so called "supremacists" which we tend to ignore.

Its absurd.

Can you please send me a link on Lane? I haven't heard of him before. The white genocide myth that I am talking about is the idea that there is a conspiracy in place that wants to get rid of the white population of the world. So the conspiracy is that there is a genocide against white people.

Below is a critique of one of the arguments for the white genocide myth which directly involves the muslim community called the Great Replacement:

 

[firedragon]

Can you please send me a link on Lane? I haven't heard of him before. The white genocide myth that I am talking about is the idea that there is a conspiracy in place that wants to get rid of the white population of the world. So the conspiracy is that there is a genocide against white people.

Below is a critique of one of the arguments for the white genocide myth which directly involves the muslim community called the Great Replacement:

Sure. As I know, Lane was the originator of the white genocide myth. But I dont know if this wiki link is sufficient as a link.

David Lane (white supremacist) - Wikipedia