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Another Man of Allah (God) *after* Muhammad (so says hadith)

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Yahyaa Waahid, May 3, 2013.

  1. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that Moses, David, Jesus, and Muhammad are His Messengers.

    As-Salaam Alaikum/Shalom Aleichem/Peace be unto you.

    ...My name is Yahyaa Waahid and though I have a Muslim name I am not Muslim. My religion is Sabianism, so anyone who states that I am Muslim is lying to you...I just wanted to say that because in the past I have been falsely labeled as Muslim but anyway, getting to the subject, I just wanted to point out to or remind anyone who is familiar with the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that he (Muhammad) said that another Divine Man of Allah (God) was to come after him. Many who believe in the Prophet Muhammad believe that he was the last Man of Allah or Prophet that we can expect...but according to the hadith, Muhammad prophesied that the Messiah would come and perform a Divine work. From the Bukhari hadith (Book #55, Hadith #657: )

    "Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)"

    Would anyone like to debate this point of another Man of Allah (God) coming after Muhammad (pbuh)?

    Peace & Blessings,
    Yahyaa Waahid
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Hadith was collected 250 / 300 years after Muhammad. Even if a Hadith is stated to be Sahih for the chain of narrators; it is to be seen under the light of some verse/s of Quran, for correct meaning.

    Can you quote a verse from Quran that clarifies your point of view? Please
     
  3. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    It is not...The hadith do not need to be presented with an ayat.

    It is true that different Muslims believe different things, but regardless of your school of thought, that hadith is from the Bukhari collection and it's words are very plain. Jesus is to come AFTER Muhammad, so the Muslim ummah should look for another Man after Muhammad.
     
  4. seeking4truth

    seeking4truth Active Member

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    This is why the majority of Muslims say Jesus will be that man. By saying the messiah will be Jesus, the same physical being, they avoid the thought that God will send another messenger after Mohammad and can claim Muhammad as the last messenger.
    It is my belief that the idea of Jesus physically alive somewhere and due to come back to earth in the latter days physically has been absorbed into Islam when it took over former Christian countries.
    Other haddith say that the Muslims will tread in the footsteps of the Jews. The Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah and it seems that the Muslims are going to reject their messiah too. This occurs because the preconceived erroneous concept they have of a messiah means they miss the real one when he comes.
     
  5. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    I find that most Orthodox Muslims are not even thinking about the fact that another Man of Allah is to come after Muhammad. They should wake up to that fact and look for the "rising sun in the West" or a Muhammad that will arise in the West and reform Islam.
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I give you the verse of Quran under which the Hadith needs to be interpreted:

    [24:56] Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me, and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.

    The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

    The one who will come after Muhammad will be a successor of him and will follow Quran and Sunnah; his title name would be Promised Messiah, Jesus and Imam Mahdi.

    Muhammad will still remain the top of the messengers prophets or seal of prophets.
     
  7. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    Ever heard of the Mahdi?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    There's really not much to debate:

    There have been two additional Divine Messengers since Muhammad--just ask any Baha'i about this! :)

    Not to mention, hadith aside, there are many prophecies actually in scripture that can be checked and verified.

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
    #8 BruceDLimber, May 4, 2013
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  9. seeking4truth

    seeking4truth Active Member

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    There have been many claimants to being Messengers after Mohammad; to be the Madhi or Messiah. How can you be certain that the founders of Baha'i religion are the right ones?
     
  10. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    Actually Brothers/Sisters, the Holy Qur'an says that for every nation there is a messenger. It says that Allah does not chastise until he raises up a messenger lest the people have a cry that they didn't know that they were in error.

    Though I am not Muslim, my own personal belief is that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the "sun that would rise from the West," the expected Messiah. He was first raised up for "the Children of Israel" (Holy Qur'an 3:49,) which is what the Scriptures call us American so-called Negroes who were in bondage for 400 years in the Americas and then like the Jesus & Paul of the Bible, the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is carrying his Message all around the world.
     
    #10 Yahyaa Waahid, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  11. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Um. What?

    we all know Isa (as) will return. But he is not a new prophet.
     
  12. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I would say, in the same way that one would investigate Muhammad and Jesus and realized they were true Prophets. Apply the same method. Another hint is find out exactly why the people of the past rejected every Messenger and killed many of them or rediculed many.
     
  13. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    With all respect but why America why not African, black people in Africa have it much harder and the Nation Of Islam is only getting smaller and smaller by the hour not bigger. Its clear that the hadiths say that there will be no new prophet after the Prophet Mohammed (sall Allahu alay-hi wa-sallam) but a Imam/leader with the title Madhi. None of the sects like the Bahai, Amidiyah or Nation of Islam fulfill the prophecies about the Mahdi or Messiah so in our Orthodox eyes they are just all made up and contradict real Islam.

    So for a Sunni or a Shia we first have to choose which sect is right and then come to the conclusion they contradict Islamic literature? No thanks!
     
    #13 F0uad, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  14. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    Well, as the Muslim world has deviated from the path of Muhammad (pbuh,) Muslims in my opinion should be more forward looking to the coming of the Messiah, because the Muslim ummah is destroyed; weak, impotent, divided and polytheistic. All of the talk about Muhammad is not working. Syria gets bombed regularly by Israel, "Muslims" are fighting each other. There needs to be more looking for the Messiah, who is infact in the world.

    Peace.
     
  15. Yahyaa Waahid

    Yahyaa Waahid Member

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    With all due respect, what contradicts Islamic literature is breaking your religion up into sects. All Muslims don't believe in the same hadith but they all believe in the Holy Qur'an and what is contradictory of the Holy Qur'an is division among Muslims. The Holy Qur'an says that it is polytheistic to form sects, and you are telling me about "Sunni" and "Shia." The Nation of Islam is not a sect. If you don't know what the word "Nation" means, then look it up. They are the Nation of Islam. Africans were not dehumanized to the level of beasts & given the worst treatment in human history for 310 years and then made "freed slaves" for another 100 years like the African-Americans, but fighting between Blacks is counterproductive.

    The Mahdi is Master W. Fard Muhammad, the Messiah is the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and Their representative is the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan...they are against SECTISM in Islam like all Muslims should be...
     
  16. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    The hadith clearly say that there will appear many people who will falsely claim to be Imam Mahdi and The Messiah.

    The Bahai's, the Ahmadis, you guys, how many Mahdi's and Messiahs are there?

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but Elijah Muhammed taught his followers that white people are the devil and that Islam is only for black people. I wonder where in the Qur'an it says that. But I'm sure you have evidence for that, it's not like you can't twist the meaning of the verses to mean whatever you want them to mean. After all if your Messiah says so, it is so. Just like the Ahmadi's and the Bahai's.
     
    #16 Gharib, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  17. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Like becoming similar to Christians, thinking Allah came incarnated? Going directly against the word of Allah in the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (saws)? Like committing shirk and being racist?

    Hmm, please tell me how Sunni Islam is "divided and polythiestic". Do they claim Allah came incarnated, associating a partner with Allah, like Christians do? Or do they preach hatred and racism, like a whole race of people being devils and created in laboratories?
     
  18. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Say: He is Allah, the One! [1] Allah, the eternally Besought of all! [2] He begetteth not nor is he begotten. [3] And there is none comparable unto Him. [4]

    Surah Ikhlas.

    You say we don't follow Quran... What does the Surah above say? So who doesn't follow Quran again? Surely you can't be serious when saying such, and then tuning around believing Allah was incarnated as man.
     
  19. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    Only in your not-so-humble opinioin.

    The Baha'i Faith's fulfillment of the prophecies in question is JUST FINE. thankyouverymuch--as anyone who examines them further can determine!

    Precisely why there are now millions of Baha'is, and more every day.

    Those who are interested can find the details here:
    http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled

    Peace, :)

    Bruce
     
  20. SonofAdam

    SonofAdam New Member

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    Just to clear up for everyone here trying to complicate things

    It says in many sources (Hadiths, Quran) that Muhammad PBUH is the last prophet.

    As for who you are talking about, according to Islam there will be a series of signs/events (small type first, when all are fulfilled (most of them are today) the bigger type will) that will occur one after the other leading to the day of judgement, including those there will be a just ruler who will rule for 40 years, he will look very much like the Prophet (PBUH) and will bare a lot of similarity to him, he will come from (I don't know what it is in English) east of the Mediterranean sea and north west of the Arabian Gulf, from بلاد الشام, so from Syria, Jordan, Palestine, or Lebanon (tell me if I missed one), then the Antichrist will be free and will attempt to trick people into believing he is god, then things happen and then Jesus (PBUH) comes down and kills the Antichrist, then he will pray behind the just ruler, just saying the important parts, so yeah obviously he's no god.
     
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