America's Catholic Supreme Court

[Saint Frankenstein]

Here is a quote...

Amy Coney Barrett and 'building the Kingdom of God'

“One way” Notre Dame Law graduates could distinguish themselves is to “always keep in mind that your legal career is but a means to an end,” and “that end is building the kingdom of God,” Barrett said.​

Now if you think the Catholic News Agency is misquoting a Notre Dame graduate, then take it up with them.

So she was just talking about putting your spiritual life before your career and not letting your work consume you, when you put it in context.

From the evidence presented this far, she hardly seems like an extremist. Very conservative and religious? Yes. But not radically so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Roe v. Wade Justices carefully explored the aspects of religious precedents. In actual practice throughout the ages, abortion was permitted.

This is something that most anti-abortionists are ignorant of.

Until the 70s, it was pretty typical to view opposition to abortion in all circumstances as a specifically Catholic position (and therefore not a Protestant position, in an era when anti-Catholic sentiment was still common).

As late as 1974, the Southern Baptist Convention's official position was that abortion is not murder and should be allowed in certain circumstances:

Southern Baptist Convention Resolutions on Abortion

 

[exchemist]

Here is a quote...

Amy Coney Barrett and 'building the Kingdom of God'

“One way” Notre Dame Law graduates could distinguish themselves is to “always keep in mind that your legal career is but a means to an end,” and “that end is building the kingdom of God,” Barrett said.​

Now if you think the Catholic News Agency is misquoting a Notre Dame graduate, then take it up with them.

No need. Just read the speech, instead of quote-mining it out of context, like a creationist.

I went into this in post 74.

ACB may or may not be a zealot, incapable of separating personal faith from her duty as a judge, but that 2006 speech is not evidence of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So she was just talking about putting your spiritual life before your career and not letting your work consume you, when you put it in context.

From the evidence presented this far, she hardly seems like an extremist. Very conservative and religious? Yes. But not radically so.

That entire speech was how those Notre Dame lawyers should act to build the kingdom of god. She would later say they should judge in accordance with their church dogma. She would later establish a record that supports her previous and controversial statements.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No need. Just read the speech, instead of quote-mining it out of context, like a creationist.

I went into this in post 74.

ACB may or may not be a zealot, incapable of separating personal faith from her duty as a judge, but that 2006 speech is not evidence of it.

I did post the speech. Context given. Voting record provided.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

All she is saying, it seems to me, is that a religious person should always, whatever they do in life, do it in the service of God, because for a religious believer that is the overall goal of life.

They are lawyers. They don't have the right or the privilege to use their position to strong arm their religious views on others (and are constitutionally prohibited from doing so). She clearly thinks they do.

 

[exchemist]

That entire speech was how those Notre Dame lawyers should act to build the kingdom of god. She would later say they should judge in accordance with their church dogma. She would later establish a record that supports her previous and controversial statements.

Where did she say that (the passage I have highlighted in red)?

It was not in that 2006 speech, so far as I can see. I explained what she said in that speech in post 74.

 

[exchemist]

I did post the speech. Context given. Voting record provided.

That is what I am directing ecco to read.

 

[exchemist]

They are lawyers. They don't have the right or the privilege to use their position to strong arm their religious views on others (and are constitutionally prohibited from doing so). She clearly thinks they do.

No this is not "clear" at all, at least not from that speech. I have explained to you why, but you have ignored it all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No this is not "clear" at all, at least not from that speech. I have explained to you why, but you have ignored it all.

I'm not ignoring. I'm not taking it into consideration because it is her own words those "different lawyers" should strive to serve god. That means doing things he approves of, that means religious intrusions into legislation.
You might as well say it means something else had she been at Liberty University and was a Southerb Baptist instead. She'd say the same words, amd the would mean the same thing; it is the way of the proper Christian to use her position to bring about a more godly society. Her record reflects this.

 

[metis]

Catholics compose about 20% of the American population. Does the fact that we have such a disproportionately high number of Catholics on the Court concern you?

Only to the extent that I prefer more of a diversity that's closer to the population as a whole.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The Roe v. Wade Justices carefully explored the aspects of religious precedents. In actual practice throughout the ages, abortion was permitted.

This is something that most anti-abortionists are ignorant of.

I don't think they really dig very deep with this stuff. They don't tend to actually know the Bible very well. They might want to actually read it. They don't tend to use any historical or cultural context, so they can make it mean anything.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Until the 70s, it was pretty typical to view opposition to abortion in all circumstances as a specifically Catholic position (and therefore not a Protestant position, in an era when anti-Catholic sentiment was still common).

As late as 1974, the Southern Baptist Convention's official position was that abortion is not murder and should be allowed in certain circumstances:

Southern Baptist Convention Resolutions on Abortion

Jerry Falwell got them to change their tune right quick.

 

[ecco]

...she hardly seems like an extremist. Very conservative and religious? Yes. But not radically so.

One man's radical is another's oh hum.

Religious and Conservative enough to enable her to be convinced that Taking a human life (read fetus) must be Constitutionally Wrong because God helped guide the hands of the founding fathers in their writings.

Religious and Conservative enough to agree with...

Trump Administration Asks Supreme Court to Strike Down Affordable Care Act

In an 82-page brief submitted an hour before a midnight deadline, the administration joined Republican officials in Texas and 17 other states in arguing that in 2017, Congress, then controlled by Republicans, had rendered the law unconstitutional when it zeroed out the tax penalty for not buying insurance — the so-called individual mandate.

In his brief, Solicitor General Noel J. Francisco argued that the health law’s two remaining central provisions are now invalid because Congress intended that all three work together.
​

I doubt that her Catholic conscience would prevent her from agreeing with the Republican Conservatives, even if the ruling would wipe out coverage for as many as 23 million Americans in the midst of a pandemic.

 

[exchemist]

I'm not ignoring. I'm not taking it into consideration because it is her own words those "different lawyers" should strive to serve god. That means doing things he approves of, that means religious intrusions into legislation.
You might as well say it means something else had she been at Liberty University and was a Southerb Baptist instead. She'd say the same words, amd the would mean the same thing; it is the way of the proper Christian to use her position to bring about a more godly society. Her record reflects this.

No, it didn't mean bending the law. I explained to you in post 74 what she meant. I'll repeat it:-
She explains that what she means is that these graduates should not let pursuit of a career in the law become an end in itself (You cannot serve both God and Mammon, basically). She then goes on to give three examples of what she means by a "different sort of lawyer". One is praying to St Ignatius before making career decisions, another is giving 10% of your income to charity and a third is when moving to a new location to seek out fellow Catholics and become part of the community.

This woman may be unsuitable to elevate to the Supreme Court (three years as a judge seems far too short, for a start), but this speech is not evidence of unsuitability.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, it didn't mean bending the law. I explained to you in post 74 what she meant. I'll repeat it:-
She explains that what she means is that these graduates should not let pursuit of a career in the law become an end in itself (You cannot serve both God and Mammon, basically). She then goes on to give three examples of what she means by a "different sort of lawyer". One is praying to St Ignatius before making career decisions, another is giving 10% of your income to charity and a third is when moving to a new location to seek out fellow Catholics and become part of the community.

This woman may be unsuitable to elevate to the Supreme Court (three years as a judge seems far too short, for a start), but this speech is not evidence of unsuitability.

I call that and raise you her record.

 

[exchemist]

I call that and raise you her record.

The problem, in my opinion as an outsider from another country, is that she has virtually no record. Three years as a judge is nowhere near long enough for her to prove herself as a top quality jurist, which is what appointment to the Supreme Court requires.

It is clear Trump, and the Republicans behind him, are trying to stack the court with young, conservative judges, regardless of their merit as judges, who will thus be around for the next 40 years to stymie attempts to move the country forward.

Ironically, what they are doing is copying Iran! They are setting up a system of government rather like the one in Iran, in which there is a Guardian Council of conservatives, whose main job it is to squash reform.