America's Catholic Supreme Court

[ecco]

I'm talking about the second link SW posted. The one that's actual quotes from her.

What I posted are also actual quotes.

 

[exchemist]

Right. No matter what the Catholic Church's stance on an issue - same-sex marriage, contraception, divorce rights, abortion rights, freedom of religion for non-Catholic denominations, whatever - we can find countless Catholic lawmakers supporting the legal right to do the thing that the Catholic Church says Catholics ought not to do.

This suggests to me that the odd time that we get an elected official saying that they can't cooperate with one of these things because it goes against their "Catholic faith," they're talking out of their butt.

Well actually it may be genuine. What we can see is that Catholic belief is no more monolithic than any other sort. People are individuals and will inevitably always place their own interpretation on the teaching and tradition of the church.

A lot of non-Catholics still seem to think Catholics are a sort of army, commanded by the pope. This was the basis of the anti-Catholic laws in England for centuries, until they were finally repealed by the Duke of Wellington (who though Protestant came from Ireland). The thinking was that a Catholic has dual loyalty and is therefore suspect and a potential traitor. It is all quite absurd.

This ACB woman may be a nutter, however. People of Praise is not something I would personally touch with a bargepole. I'd like to see some real evidence of her performance as a judge before deciding. It does seem inappropriate to elevate to SCOTUS someone who has only been on the bench for 3 years, whatever her religious beliefs.

 

[exchemist]

So, her saying judges are obligated to rule in accordance with their church is useless? Such a statement should never come from a judge, unless it's to emphasis that shpuld not happen.

Just post some decent links. It is a waste of time to argue the toss on the basis of snippets quote-mined from somewhere.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A lot of non-Catholics still seem to think Catholics are a sort of army, commanded by the pope. This was the basis of the anti-Catholic laws in England for centuries, until they were finally repealed by the Duke of Wellington (who though Protestant came from Ireland). The thinking was that a Catholic has dual loyalty and is therefore suspect and a potential traitor. It is all quite absurd.

Catholic clergy haven't helped the Church's reputation in this regard, IMO. Occasionally, priests and bishops here do try to command and coerce lawmakers:

Ontario Catholic MP Denied Communion for Voting in Favour of Homosexual “Marriage”

Eucharist denial to Catholic politicians over abortion - Wikipedia

... it's just that these tactics get ignored by the politicians being targetted and condemned by many Catholic rank-and-file parishoners.

BTW: not all anti-Catholic laws got repealed. It's still illegal for a Catholic to become the British monarch (and therefore also the Canadian monarch).

 

[Watchmen]

Assuming Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed by the Senate and becomes a Supreme Court Justice, she will be the 6th Justice (out of 9) who is Catholic. The others are John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavanaugh, and Sonia Sotomayor. Neil Gorsuch was raised Catholic, but is now Episcopalian.

Catholics compose about 20% of the American population. Does the fact that we have such a disproportionately high number of Catholics on the Court concern you? Thrill you? Intrigue you? Is it irrelevant to you? What do you think it will mean for the legal future of social issues, e.g. contraception, abortion, and LGBTQ rights?

Irrelevant. Would you like such litmus tests implemented in other areas of government? What about in the private sector?

 

[Watchmen]

I am worried for Roe v Wade, and LGBT rights and protections. Abortion cases are already primed for Supreme Court battle, they're only waiting to pull the trigger.

Don’t fall for that old wedge issue. A conservative court has had multiple opportunities to overturn Roe v Wade and has never done so.

 

[exchemist]

Catholic clergy haven't helped the Church's reputation in this regard, IMO. Occasionally, priests and bishops here do try to command and coerce lawmakers:

Ontario Catholic MP Denied Communion for Voting in Favour of Homosexual “Marriage”

Eucharist denial to Catholic politicians over abortion - Wikipedia

... it's just that these tactics get ignored by the politicians being targetted and condemned by many Catholic rank-and-file parishoners.

BTW: not all anti-Catholic laws got repealed. It's still illegal for a Catholic to become the British monarch (and therefore also the Canadian monarch).

Yes you are right about some of these bishops.

Regarding the British monarch, there is a constitutional reason for that: the monarch is Supreme Governor of the Church of England, a position created by Henry VIII when he broke with Rome over his marriage. So, fairly obviously, having a Catholic in that position would make no sense.

(When I was young, I experienced a little bit of the tail end of anti-Catholic prejudice in England. It was not serious, but unpleasant nonetheless. I like to think it gives me some faint inkling of what Jews and Muslims have to put up with.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Welcome to America 2020....

Has been thus for many years.

 

[Revoltingest]

Her own words in an interview is her position as a judge is a means to an end, and that is doing what she believes is establishing gods kingdom.
Too bad that isn't an automatic disqualification, as that would be an infringement upon the First unlike the illegal and unconstitutional tests of faith that several states have that effectively and illegally ban atheists from public office.
But this is the predictable outcome of a Trump/Pence presidency. Voting for them was then and is now a vote to destroy secularism in America.
Hopefully the Dems will play hardball and create more SC positions to balance out a heavy unbalanced court.

She'd be far from alone among justices who believe that sky
fairies are real, & that they rule our lives per various books.
Moreover, you can bet your bippy that any nominee of Biden
(also a Catholic) will be a church going believer too.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of an even more theocratic
approach to constitutional law. But she cannot be evaluated
based solely upon her religion & that single statement.
She has a record now after several years on the bench.
And that should concern you more.
What we know about Amy Coney Barrett's judicial abortion record

 

[Brickjectivity]

Assuming Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed by the Senate and becomes a Supreme Court Justice, she will be the 6th Justice (out of 9) who is Catholic. The others are John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavanaugh, and Sonia Sotomayor. Neil Gorsuch was raised Catholic, but is now Episcopalian.

Catholics compose about 20% of the American population. Does the fact that we have such a disproportionately high number of Catholics on the Court concern you? Thrill you? Intrigue you? Is it irrelevant to you? What do you think it will mean for the legal future of social issues, e.g. contraception, abortion, and LGBTQ rights?

By the way I recently found this very succinct video which explains the rise of the religious right in the USA and its entanglement with the Republicans.
Its a youtube. The code is: zpLCIc5PvQw This guy (J.J. McCullough) really does explain it cleanly and as briefly as possible though it does still require 36 minutes. I recommend it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yes, I am very much pro-choice/pro-non-governmental interference. Very minimal public funding goes towards abortion services, most States already prohibit it, and it is prohibited at a federal level as well.

Public Funding for Abortion

My taxes go to many things I am religiously/fundamentally opposed to. I see that as a bad moral argument.

Yes well I personally also think that as long as no cruelty is involved its not murder up to a certain point, and I grasp the argument about it being a woman's body. Its a terrible argument, but you're stuck with it for now. A better argument I think would be that women have authority over the fetus and not the law of the land. That authority seems indicated by nature, so how can the law grant itself the power to enter therein? I think that argument would be a lot stronger.

 

[Cooky]

Assuming Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed by the Senate and becomes a Supreme Court Justice, she will be the 6th Justice (out of 9) who is Catholic. The others are John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavanaugh, and Sonia Sotomayor. Neil Gorsuch was raised Catholic, but is now Episcopalian.

Catholics compose about 20% of the American population. Does the fact that we have such a disproportionately high number of Catholics on the Court concern you? Thrill you? Intrigue you? Is it irrelevant to you? What do you think it will mean for the legal future of social issues, e.g. contraception, abortion, and LGBTQ rights?

I'm not bothered by it, no.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Saying her position is ameans to an end woth the end being gods kingdom, amd saying judges are obligated to rule in accordance with their churches morality is extremely controversial becaise it is her belief she can force the dogma that is strong in her upon the rest of us.

That's from your first link and it's Diane Feinstein saying that Barrett said that, not a direct quote.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What I posted are also actual quotes.

Proof?

America's Catholic Supreme Court

 

[lewisnotmiller]

There were rumors a few years ago that Breyer is an atheist. But as always they never come directly out and say it.

Political suicide is rarely popular with politicians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's from your first link and it's Diane Feinstein saying that Barrett said that, not a direct quote.

Here is the direct quote.
https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=commencement_programs

I’m not going to explore them all in this
short speech. I’m just going to identify one way in which I hope
that you, as graduates of Notre Dame, will fulfill the promise
of being a different kind of lawyer. And that is this: that you
will always keep in mind that your legal career is but a means to
an end, and as Father Jenkins told you this morning, that end
is building the kingdom of God. You know the same law, are
charged with maintaining the same ethical standards, and will
be entering the same kinds of legal jobs as your peers across the
country. But if you can keep in mind that your fundamental
purpose in life is not to be a lawyer, but to know, love, and serve
God, you truly will be a different kind of lawyer.

That is very alarming. It does make her a threat to our rights and liberties, amd is fundamentally incompatible with the Constitution. Her entire speech was basically a sermon.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Knocks the breath out of me. Sure, sure they're nothing like you sane Catholics over there. Its only our Catholics over here, right?

Of course, people are people.
But there are strong Catholic factions based out of the US, and in some cases there is 'US Catholic' normal which is quite different to in other places. There have been endless articles written about this.
You can make your own call around what is sane or not sane, better or worse. But there are meaningful differences.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Of course, people are people.
But there are strong Catholic factions based out of the US, and in some cases there is 'US Catholic' normal which is quite different to in other places. There have been endless articles written about this.
You can make your own call around what is sane or not sane, better or worse. But there are meaningful differences.

Quite so. I don't truly doubt that we have some unusual Catholic groups, here. Where else would they be?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

She'd be far from alone among justices who believe that sky
fairies are real, & that they rule our lives per various books.
Moreover, you can bet your bippy that any nominee of Biden
(also a Catholic) will be a church going believer too.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of an even more theocratic
approach to constitutional law. But she cannot be evaluated
based solely upon her religion & that single statement.
She has a record now after several years on the bench.
And that should concern you more.
What we know about Amy Coney Barrett's judicial abortion record

I dont care what they believe. It should never touch legislation, however.
Hers cleaely does. Her speech is basically a sermon on how and why lawyers should do their part to be "different lawyers....who build the kingdom of god." Hence her anti abortion record.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Quite so. I don't truly doubt that we have some unusual Catholic groups, here. Where else would they be?

Ha! Made me chuckle.
We have some too, and there have been some strong political influencers who are pretty conservative Catholics in recent years here. But ultimately I think your groups are a little more mainstream in a sense, and more organised.

Australians are apathetic. The biggest impact here traditionally (imho) has been more around school networks built up through private schooling, rather than the religious beliefs in and of themselves.