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Alcohol and/or Drug Consumption Impact On Spirituality

How does alcohol or recreational drug use impact spiritual growth?

  • It has a negative impact.

    Votes: 17 81.0%
  • It has a positive impact.

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Total voters
    21

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."

The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia

OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants.

Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."

The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia

OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants.

Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?
Recreational use of either inhibits spirituality, in my opinion/experience. Careful use might enhance or enable spiritual experience, especially by helping the individual break through some of their learned viewpoints.

Random experiences and to-oft-repeated experiences with such substances are not as effective as when supervised and guided by more experienced individuals...at least so I've heard...

but you can get many of the same effects, without as many negative effects, through meditation and similar practices...
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
It all depends on the intended effect.

Christ knew he was going to be taken, and I'm sure the wine calmed the mind of himself as well as the disciples. But they fell asleep when he wanted them alert to his prayer.

How can a shot of vodka be any worse than a shot of NyQuil? The desires of the spirit should overcome the desires of the flesh (in the mind). People smoke cigarettes because they enjoy the (fleshly) experience. People also mountain climb and sky dive for the experience fulfillment as well. The (orthodox) church tries to say one is sinful, while the others are not. No one does these things to die, but to tarry in what affects the flesh (and mind) see's as an enjoyable experience.

Spiritual knowledge is where you place the importance of such things, and their intended use. Which is why Jesus said:

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."

The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia

OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants.

Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?
Unless one is a traditional shaman, the experiences are overwhelmingly likely to be misleading.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Unless one is a traditional shaman, the experiences are overwhelmingly likely to be misleading.
I didn't answer the main question because I am unqualified to answer it. My consumption is a glass of wine a week or so, a beer every 3 days, or every 3 weeks, or something like that. I do like rum, the one that is seasoned and cannot be gotten locally in many places.

The reason I write this post is "Unless one is a traditional shaman . . ." How would a shaman benefit from having his wits scrambled?" :) Just curious.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
It depends I guess. Drinking to get drunk or feel the buzz won't enhance your spirituality any time soon (but it is fun.)

But drinking or consuming drugs in order to specifically elicit a spiritual experience can. As it is often used to break down perception and the crumble the walls of reality, as it were.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."

The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia

OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants.

Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?

Anything you do will affect your spiritual development, and I mean _anything_ even the quality of the air you breathe. Alcohol is a toxin, a literal poison, to our bodies. Cannabis depletes your dopamine generation equipment and leave you feeling down for at least several days later. Tobacco is loaded with so many carcinogenic chemicals it's hard to know what is in there, but none of it can be good for you, especially since you are inhaling cancer causing CO. Other drugs are worse than this, so not worth mentioning.

My experience has been since I've become aware of the energies in my body that I tend to feel them slow down, and also have a lot of interference in the spirit radio department. If you need pep or stimulation, I can do nothing better than recommend daily meditation. I literally feel so much energy after sitting for awhile that I have to consciously dissipate some of it or I start feeling faint. Want weird visions? Be High on Life? Spiritual enrichment? Yeah, meditation is the way. Anything that interferes with that is of course the opposite of "the way". :D
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Recreational use of either inhibits spirituality, in my opinion/experience. Careful use might enhance or enable spiritual experience, especially by helping the individual break through some of their learned viewpoints.

Random experiences and to-oft-repeated experiences with such substances are not as effective as when supervised and guided by more experienced individuals...at least so I've heard...

but you can get many of the same effects, without as many negative effects, through meditation and similar practices...
I am reminded of the writings of Carlos Castaneda wherein at a point Carlos asks Don Juan why he gave him so many drugs. His reply was both informative and also cryptic. He said something to the effect that it was because Carlos was "thick" and needed to be shaken from his ordinary view of the world. Further to this he was quite emphatic that the drugs were not the point of his teaching, they simply shook away the long held biases and behaviors that Carlos had cocooned himself in and allowed him to glimpse what Don Juan was really pointing at.

The only reason for saying this is as a further point to the one made by @sayak83 above. Not for kiddies, as they are not toys.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."

The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia

OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants.

Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?

I believe drugs and alchohol have a negative impact when used frequently and/or for prolonged periods of time. There are temporary short term benefits to be gained for pain/stress management. But the long term issues that arise outweigh the temporary short term benefits.

Marijuana for instance as an all natural drug, is great for pain management. Some research has shown the cannibals oil has some cancer fighting potential.

But there is drawbacks to long term recreational use. Marijuana Use and Its Effects

Most commonly Increased heart rate and blood pressure which can cause some users to have a heart attack. Which I can confirm the increased heart rate and blood pressure. It's bad for people with diabetes or liver disease. Also it can make anxiety/depression/schizophrenia worse. And much more all detailed in the article above.

Anyways I got off on a tangent.

I feel like anything that alters your perception is bad for spiritual growth. Spiritual growth should come from asking yourself tough questions and then finding the answers yourself. Drugs/Alchohol only give a temporary insight that usually is forgotten quickly. Much better to achieve this on your own and make it a permanent expanded state of mind vs a temporary explosion of intoxicated expanded thought.

At least this is the opinion of a recovering addict who abused drugs/alchohol for the first 22ish years of his life (started using around 12 though).
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Spiritual ignorance is toxic as well (according to Thomas).

(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Unless one is a traditional shaman, the experiences are overwhelmingly likely to be misleading.
Well put sayak. It can have long term damaging effects. It was the 60s party usage of these types of compounds that resulted In? Donald trump? Lol couldn't resist.

.. These things were taken extremely seriously thousands of years ago and were part of a variety of religions. I know that many of the ancient religious texts were in some way somehow effected by psychedelics. I certainly know the new testament reads out like psychedelics. Straight up it makes zero sense so it's not a "science text at all".
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Medical use of anything by a physician to treat a condition where the drug, whatever it might be, is known to help is find with me and not the subject of this thread.

Back in the day, amongst other things, I had discussions with someone who had been close to the LSD early group. The observation that struck him and me was that use of drugs did not lead to any spiritual development. I had the personal experience of a bad trip and had to deal with someone who had flipped out using drugs. I decided that chemicals with antithetical to spiritual growth for those and other reasons.

Another part of my process was hearing Baba Ram Das aka Richard Alpert speak on the topic. He read a letter from Meher Baba about how drugs were delusion into illusion and did not lead anywhere. He also related giving his guru LSD and his guru had no effect from the drug illustrating in person the lack of value of the drug.

As far as marijuana goes, I was unable to meditate until I got it fully out of my system. It was like being in a fog bank.

I rarely have a glass of wine or some beer with food which to me not harmful but also not helpful for spiritual purposes.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I didn't answer the main question because I am unqualified to answer it. My consumption is a glass of wine a week or so, a beer every 3 days, or every 3 weeks, or something like that. I do like rum, the once that is seasoned and cannot be gotten locally in many places.

The reason I write this post is "Unless one is a traditional shaman . . ." How would a shaman benefit from having his wits scrambled?" :) Just curious.

A lot of mind altering substances will give you the impression that you are at least participating in a spiritual episode where you believe you have talked to God and He has given you the "true answer" (as a young man of the Woodstock generation I have seen this played out many times). But in reality unless you have an extensive background in spirituality and self-awareness coupled with the guidance of a trusted teacher, then you can be easily fooled and deluded by your perception. But on the other hand, I have seen people return with the knowledge that they know now that they don't know spiritually.

I am reminded of the writings of Carlos Castaneda wherein at a point Carlos asks Don Juan why he gave him so many drugs. His reply was both informative and also cryptic. He said something to the effect that it was because Carlos was "thick" and needed to be shaken from his ordinary view of the world. Further to this he was quite emphatic that the drugs were not the point of his teaching, they simply shook away the long held biases and behaviors that Carlos had cocooned himself in and allowed him to glimpse what Don Juan was really pointing at.

The only reason for saying this is as a further point to the one made by @sayak83 above. Not for kiddies, as they are not toys.

See above...and always strive for impeccability.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
A lot of mind altering substances will give you the impression that you are at least participating in a spiritual episode where you believe you have talked to God and He has given you the "true answer" (as a young man of the Woodstock generation I have seen this played out many times). But in reality unless you have an extensive background in spirituality and self-awareness coupled with the guidance of a trusted teacher, then you can be easily fooled and deluded by your perception. But on the other hand, I have seen people return with the knowledge that they know now that they don't know spiritually.
Ditto. Binder dundat. Burned the T-shirt. Buried it in the back yard. Moved away.

A very close friend of mine *giggles* had the asset of very few preconceptions, was "well adjusted" and simply curious. He ended up chucking the drug routine for meditation after a few years and never looked back. Later, he said, "That is when the real fun began!"

See above...and always strive for impeccability.
Ah, the art of being an impeccable warrior. :cool:
 

arthra

Baha'i
Aldous Huxley detailed his experiences of a mescaline trip in his book "The Doors of Perception."
The Doors of Perception - Wikipedia
OTOH, there are religions that denounce the use of intoxicants. Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development? If so, how? If not, why not?
I respected the work of Aldous Huxley and read some of his works years ago. Back in the sixties I experimented with some hallucinogens that were then available. While I noted some interesting affects I also observed that the general effect on society was often to self medicate or shall we say anathematize people from their lives.

Unfortunately unsupervised use of these drugs is too often not salutary and I know of cases where there is a negative impact on spiritual development. Medications are a necessary part of our treatment to heal but misused or misapplied can also have deadly and unsatisfactory results.
Since this is a religious forum I've decided to attach the following statement by the Baha'i International Community:

Prevention and Control of Drug and Substance Abuse: A Baha'i Perspective
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Does consumption of alcoholic beverages or use of recreational drugs impact spiritual development?
Firstly find the poll insulting to begin...Alcohol is a poison, an intoxicant, and herbs that get us high is because they work with the bodies biology.
Most commonly Increased heart rate and blood pressure which can cause some users to have a heart attack.
Cannabis in long term users lowers blood pressure.... Plus no one in history has had a heart attack from cannabis use.
Which I can confirm the increased heart rate and blood pressure.
This is only an immediate affect due to a persons own psyche being affected, and not the affects of the cannabis on the nervous system.
It's bad for people with diabetes
Cannabis can help cure diabetes; especially in oil form, where we can use it to help alleviate swelling, and symptoms.
liver disease.
Cannabis helps cure liver diseases.
it can make anxiety/depression/schizophrenia worse.
It is a teacher plant, with the right spiritual guidance it helps internal work; with no guidance, people are often going to get worse anyway, any drugs just amplify what is there already.
Unless one is a traditional shaman, the experiences are overwhelmingly likely to be misleading.
Part of being spiritual is to explore our consciousness, and to slowly develop an understanding of a reality that is overwhelming.
If so, how? If not, why not?
There is medicinal nutrition globally that has been put here by the divine, for us to properly experience different aspects of our consciousness whilst in a physical body; there is also lots of man made crap, that poison us in someway to make an affect (intoxicants).

Originally most of our worlds religions started from Shamanic culture; so in Zoroastrianism there is Haoma, in Hinduism Soma and in the the Bible we have Kaneh Bosem (cannabis), in the holy anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24)...

Each of these religions have poetic writings that were influenced by the use of most likely the same plant; therefore to even understand these text in all their glory, we need to experience it in the manner it was written.

Originally tho in Shamanic culture there was a time of coming to age, where we would introduce Shamanic medicine when a person was ready in a proper ceremony; now tho at 21 in USA or 18 in UK, you're an adult, now you can go get drunk and become more stupid, as we literally burn our grey matter.

With cannabis our brain has cannabinoid neuroreceptors that regulate the firing of neurons, thus making us become more harmonized, and there are also certain receptors stimulated, such as creativity, trance, and reflectiveness.

Thus we're actually designed to have cannabis in our diet, without it many people have malnutrition, where they don't actually think rationally, as their brains are over firing.

Psychedelics are being found to increase the interconnectivity of our frontal lobe, thus making it we learn to think outside of the box by making additional links.

Steve Job said "one of 3 most important things he did in his life was take LSD".

Sting said "taking ayahuasca was one of the most religious experiences he had ever had".

Put it this way we can experience an NDE to realize everything is interconnected, and we exist in a big symbiosis or we can take psychedelic medicines that teach us the same thing.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” - Bill Hicks

Considering we have a comedian explaining what we find in many advanced religious texts, and he is making a joke about how much it enlightens us to what western media presents, the answer to your question is obvious by those with experience on the topic.

Though personally would like to reintegrate a spiritual ceremonial system for the usage, and understanding of all these medicines.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The reason I write this post is "Unless one is a traditional shaman . . ." How would a shaman benefit from having his wits scrambled?" :) Just curious.
Shaman usage of drugs is often ritualistic in nature. They do not simply get high, but use drugs in healing practices and even in worship rituals. The idea is that in order to be a teacher of spirituality, one must master their subconscious as well as harmonize their energy. This is often achieved through hallucinogenic drugs, in order to break away from the mere technical side of the brain, I guess. This website probably better explains it.
Shaman's Apprentice: Drugs, Rituals and Living Energy ⋆ LonerWolf
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Cannabis in long term users lowers blood pressure.

I doubt that, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take personally.

This is only an immediate affect due to a persons own psyche being affected, and not the affects of the cannabis on the nervous system.

Same as above.

Cannabis can help cure diabetes; especially in oil form, where we can use it to help alleviate swelling, and symptoms.

I am talking about recreational use. I.e. smoking it.

Not the oil which has medical uses. Medical use of oil is perfectly acceptable.

Cannabis helps cure liver diseases.

Again the oil, which is medical use. Recreational use of smoking does not give the benefits of the oil.

It is a teacher plant, with the right spiritual guidance it helps internal work; with no guidance, people are often going to get worse anyway, any drugs just amplify what is there already.

Maybe, I don't know anyone who has ever done this, so I cant speak to the truth of it. I do agree with the rest of the statement though, because that is what I am familiar with.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I doubt that
Deal with science; not speculation.
I am talking about recreational use. I.e. smoking it.
Recreational smoking still regulates blood sugars; why it is questioned about munchies not necessarily making people fat.
Recreational use
Recreational includes edibles, oils, etc... Plus we can find articles on smoking cannabis helping lower fatty liver disease.

Would suggest doing more scientific research into a lot of what you stated, as there is a lot of old unscientific propaganda about, still trying to make it into something bad.

In my opinion
. :innocent:
 
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