Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The "principle of sufficient reason" states that everything must have a reason or a cause. The modern formulation of the principle is usually attributed to Gottfried Leibniz, although the idea was conceived of and utilized as well by the THEIST Dr. Thomas Aquinas. The cause of modern Beuty and Simplicity scientific principles can not be illusion (otherwise their application violates the principle of sufficient reason), because in such case all Science is illusive. The cause of the Beuty and Simplicity criterion/concept is the belief, that Beautiful and simple God exists. And because the concepts have been justified by experiment/observation, then the source of the concepts (God) must be real as well.
No models (hypotheses, theories) are consider true, without rigorously testing the model, through evidence (evidence in the form of observations and data). Nothing is true by default.
God cannot be true, by default, even if the models are wrong, because God himself cannot be observed, detected, measured or tested, therefore there are no evidence for god.
Hmmm I hae not decided if the Pagan Gods are real or not either, they are undecidable. That makes them real then? HUH!
Bad logic. If science cannot explain it then it just means that we do not know until evidence presents itself to give an idea of what did cause it. God becomes one of the possibilities but not the conclusion.
If so, he can not be dismissed. I argue, that any false thing can be shown false [given unlimited research time and resources].
If a god would be false, it can be demonstrated by either:
1. contradiction in his theology,
2. contradiction in nature,
3. inventing god-less model of reality [google "missing antimatter paradox"]
The pagan gods and laws of nature are not in the intersection. Thus, they are not necessary. This holds true the third point [in my vision].
It is wrong and unthankful to God to say because the apostasy violates the principle of sufficient reason: modernists have no reason to murder God of Love&Reason. "God is dead, we have murdered Him" (F.N.)
Neith false nor true. It is believed or not believed,
FAITH IS FAITHFULNESS TO KNOWLEDGE
Contradiction over the millennia of many conflicting and contradictions concerning what and who the God(s) are. and yes this results in numerous contradictions in nature.
YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS CONTRADICTION IN NATURE. IT IS ABSURD-IC PHYSICS. SUCH ONE IS NOT SEEN.
'Missing matter paradox' if used from a theological subjective 'arguing from ignorance.' From the scientific perspective it only represents unanswered questions nothing more.
IT IS PROOF THAT GOD OF GAPS IS ALIVE&WELL
Only from this perspective of those who believe differently. From the perspective of those that believe in pagan Gods, your beliefs are not in the intersection.
YOU DO NOT GET IT. REALITY WORKS PERFECTLY WITHOUT ANYONE FROM OLYMP.
You cannot murder someone or something one does not believe in.
You cannot murder someone or something one does not believe in.
Is strangely then, that the word God is central in the Wikipedia Article: "Gödel's ontological proof".This is not a proof based on Godel's Math Logic it is an apologetic ontological argument not related to math. No mention of God, nor any specific religion mentioned here.
Please read my comments inside your comment.
People are so deep in apostasy that have completely forgotten the faith their relatives had. I wildly guess two things: you are not a believer in my God, but your for-fathers in the Middle Ages were.
"But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'" (John 15:25)
Is strangely then, that the word God is central in the Wikipedia Article: "Gödel's ontological proof".
I insist that faith is staying true to knowledge. Therefore the beliefs of people have objective value. Do I have hallucination, I see word God in the Wikipedia?Read the comments. Nothing persuasive, just statements of what you believe.
Strange, but God(s) not mentioned. Again . . . This is not a proof based on Godel's Math Logic it is an apologetic ontological argument not related to math. No mention of God, nor any specific religion mentioned here.
I insist that faith is staying true to knowledge.
Therefore the beliefs of people have objective value.
Do I have hallucination,
I see word God in the Wikipedia?
The Gödel has proven God here: Gödel's ontological proof - WikipediaI see hundreds of thousands of words in Wikipedia,
God is a three letter word.
It is wrong and unthankful to God to say because the apostasy violates the principle of sufficient reason: modernists have no reason to murder God of Love&Reason. "God is dead, we have murdered Him" (F.N.) "But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'" (John 15:25)
You don't get it, look:The problem is that there is no sufficient reason to believe that God exists, especially a specific one, and therefore no reason to thank him
In your understanding, what is God? And in your understanding why can there not be more then one?The Gödel has proven God here: Gödel's ontological proof - Wikipedia
Because word God is in there.
You don't get it, look:
1. Jesus gave observational reasons to abandon the Greek gods.
2. nobody gave reason to abandon Jesus.
I believe following:Reason to abandon Jesus:
- Haven't observed him or any effect he has had in the world besides a psychological one on believers
- No valid evidence that he had a link to God
- No valid evidence that he still exists
- No valid evidence that he performed miracles or any such thing
- The bible makes claims and doesn't provide evidence
At present he is as impotent as the Greek gods.
I believe following:
Bible, I read my Bible. There are sources outside the Bible as well about Jesus. Moreover Jesus is the reason to abandon pagan gods. They were abandoned by all Europeans. Thus, people were impressed by Jesus's miracles and teaching. So for our for-fathers, Jesus is True God, He was scientifically proven God (by observation). There is no reason yet to abandon Jesus.
Spirit of all, which come from God is the essence of God. From God came names.In your understanding, what is God? And in your understanding why can there not be more then one?
I spoke "Europe has accepted Jesus Christ" as of consensus, status quo. Official Status Quo. Therefore, there must be a reason to change the Status Quo, otherwise, society sins against the "principle of sufficient reason", cf. Wikipedia. The groundless doubts in the Bible are not a reason.The Bible is a book of claims. Its claims have to be proven using outside evidence apart from the book. Certain claims have been proven, while other claims have not and sometimes have been disproven, even contradicting reality.
Yeah, those who worshipped pagan gods were heavily persecuted and killed. Many pagans "abandoned" paganism under false pretense to preserve their lives:
Persecution of pagans in the late Roman Empire - Wikipedia
And not all pagan gods were abandoned in europe:
European Paganism and Christianization
Also paganism was in full force after Jesus death, so most pagan converts in history never saw Jesus miracles. Plus, how many of them even read the Bible? It was mostly hearsay from what I understand. So many pagans were forced to become Christian so I don't know why you are mentioning pagans abandoning history because it sheds negative light on Christianity.
Observation and science haven't proven the existence of God.
So again your reasoning is flawed. I also stated a few reasons to abandon Jesus in my post you replied to.
I spoke "Europe has accepted Jesus Christ" as of consensus, status quo. Official Status Quo. Therefore, there must be a reason to change the Status Quo, otherwise, society sins against the "principle of sufficient reason", cf. Wikipedia. The groundless doubts in the Bible are not a reason.