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Agnosticism is debunked using advanced methods of Science

Heyo

Veteran Member
No, not agnostics, but IGnostics.
Ignosticism is just a modern term for the Agnosticism of Huxley to contrast it to the modern, colloquial meaning of agnosticism.
While I concede that I should specify "Huxleyan" or "philosophical" Agnosticism in everyday conversation, I think it should be understood that philosophical Agnosticism is meant in philosophy or religion debates and the specification "colloquial" should be used otherwise.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
In case of such doubt please use the Occam' razor: no evidence for aliens -- no aliens.
Just because humans have yet to discover a solid evidence of aliens or other living beings "out there" does not mean they can not exist.
It can be as simple that we yet have discovered the tool needed to find the aliens. So Aliens could be in your back yard without you knowing it, because they go in and out of different dimension faster then your eyes or tools can detect
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
One can prove, that the aliens are satan's army of sinful creatures. The way of proving: the Fermi Paradox tells us, that there are no traces of life in the cosmos. All activity of UFO is happening at Earth and solar system. It is our tempting devils then.

You don't seem to understand what "proof" means. If anybody can show that UFOs are real in the sense that people are really getting abducted or whatever, rather than just the literal sense of unidentified flying objects, then somebody positing aliens is actually saying that there are signs of life in the cosmos, so Fermi doesn't apply.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Friends, can I use your precious comments in my paper for Science Magazine?
Are you including my post #22?

Do you want these precious comments enough to first give a copy to everyone you wish to quote, with the understanding that you won't post the paper anywhere if someone objects to your interpretation of their quote?
Tom
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
How come? I am logical, I like reason.

If someone says that they cannot prove or disprove something, they are saying that they have no evidence for it either way.

According to your point about Occam's Razor, "no evidence of something therefore it doesn't exist", that means that because there is no evidence then it doesn't exist.

But what you are saying in the OP is that Fermi Paradox states that that means that something definitely exists.

Example:

The existence of aliens through the lense of Occam's Razor and Fermi Paradox:"

Occam's Razor = Aliens do not exist

Fermi Paradox = Aliens exist
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
True. That is why it has to be reviewed by us.
You need more than just "let me see a copy".
You could read it, object to the interpretation, and he posts it anyway.

Then, the magazine is posting his opinions with your name on them and there's nothing you can do about it.

Trust me, I've been around this block more than once. People with agendas loved "quoting" me, a conservative gay man, in very deceptive ways. Usually Christians, I don't much trust any religionists who want to quote me.
Tom
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Demonstrated in an alternative way, that the Theorems of Gödel are true, and hold not only for some special mathematical problems but in general (for any kind of statement in any kind of system/situation). As applications: Hilbert’s Second Problem Solved. Agnosticism is solved. The burden of Disproof is given to atheists. Andrew Wiles’s proof of Fermat’s Last Theorem (which is a hypothesis) uses unproven hypothesis-es of set theory (not the axioms of set theory), thus, the proof is debunked.

Proof of the Second Incompleteness Theorem

The set of axioms produces statements. Some are decidable, some are undecidable. To prove in full range the consistency of mathematics is to prove the validity of all statements, including undecidable ones. Latter to do is impossible by definition. Thus, it is not possible to prove, that mathematics is consistent.

Another way to prove the Gödel’s Second Theorem:

  1. Axioms are defined as undecidable things.
  2. Such things are true.
  3. Thus, axioms are true, and, thus, the set of axioms are without self-contradiction, i.e. consistent.
Thus, a consistent set of axioms can not be proven.

The axioms are defined not as assumptions, but as undecidable but obvious things. Indeed, some axioms can be logically demonstrated [thus, gaining the status of theorems or facts].

Application to Fermat’s Last Theorem

Colin McLarty: „This paper explores the set theoretic assumptions used in the current published proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, how these assumptions figure in the methods Wiles uses, and the currently known prospects for a proof using weaker assumptions.“ What Does it Take to Prove Fermat's Last Theorem? Grothendieck and the Logic of Number Theory | Bulletin of Symbolic Logic | Cambridge Core

Such assumptions are not axioms, because they are not obvious things. Secondly, the Proof of Fermat’s Theorem is outside the axioms of algebra, because it supposed to use axioms of the set theory. Therefore, within the algebra the Fermat’s theorem is still neither proven, nor disproven. It is a strong candidate then for an undecidable statement of algebra [therefore the Hilbert’s Second Problem, which is talking about algebra axioms, is becoming solved through my arguments above]. Conclusion: Fermat’s Hypothesis was proven by another hypothesis-es („assumptions“), thus there is no proof of Fermat’s statement even in the set theory.

Application to Agnosticism

Agnostics are making one claim: God is not decidable. But if one can neither prove nor disprove God, then God exists.

Application to Gnostic Atheism

The fact to accept: if one can neither prove nor disprove God, then God exists. Hereby because Gnostic Atheists hope for absence God, then God could be disproven. Because God could be disproven, then it is wrong to assign Burden of Disproof exclusively to theists. In such a case the atheists must accept, that God satisfies Popper’s Falsifiability criterion, thus the God is scientific.

More in the viXra:
Wiles Has not Proven the Fermat’s Last Theorem, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2005.0209

Sure, I accept any number of Gods exist. They don't bother me, I don't bother them.
 
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