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ACT test scores for US students drop to new 30-year low

PureX

Veteran Member
I would not call CBS "right wing". But they seemed more open to the idea that there could be more than one explanation. I probably could find studies if required, but I think that we all agree that parents positive involvement with education will help their children in their studies. And homeschoolers have to be very involved. The question that we cannot really answer is "would these children have done better in public school?" After all, their parents would have still be giving them the positive feedback that they need whether they were in public school or homeschool.
That's not the question to be asked. I have no doubt that there are some families that could home-school successfully. But they are not the norm. They are the exception. And for every set of parents capable of doing an exceptionally good job of it, there will be a set of patents that will do an exceptionally bad job of it. And the simple fact is that most parents are already exhausted from just keeping a roof over their kids heads and food for them to eat. The idea that home schooling is a viable solution to our deteriorating public schools is just patently absurd. It's the same idiotic thinking that concludes that no government is better then bad government. It's just stupid beyond all reasoning.
And what our conservative members do not realize is that today most parents cannot homeschool Far too many families have to have both parents working to make a living. So we are in a way comparing two very disparate groups.
Not only can't they do it financially, but they can't do it intellectually, either. We really need to nip this idiocy in the bud and start focusing our energy on fixing our public schools. And that means supporting them financially, as well as through parental participation ... and not ideological or political participation, but PRACTICAL hands on participation with their kids and their teachers.
 
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wellwisher

Well-Known Member
One problem I see is connected to the Left's interpretation of the idea that we are all equal. Equality is about playing by the same set of rules. However, since people are different, one set of rules will not always giveth the same results. The Left seems to think that equality is not about one set of rules, but equal results. This required dual standards; more than one set of rules, to get the same results, such as Affirmative action; discriminate against one to put them in a hole and then to give another an advantage, so we can get equal results.

The problem with this approach is it is harder to make the dumb smarter, than it is to make the smart dumber, so we can achieve equal results. Based on this one irrational premise of the Left, one would expect a net dumb down in education, based on it being easier to get equal results that way. Even smart people will under achieve.

In sports, there are one set of rules for all players, in any sport, at at level. There will always be the top dogs, underdogs and the rest in the middle. Say we applied Liberalism to sports to achieve the same results across the board. Again, it will be easier to dumb down the best players with extra rules, than to train the bottom players to score 50 points every other game. Sports would dumb down to a lower state, because the premise is irrational and designed for failure; victim culture to grow Big Government.

We need to go back to common sense and one set of rules for all. This allows the cream to rise, rather than be held back to satisfy an illusion. The elephant in the room, can be seen in sports. Black males are really good at many mens sports. That tell us, that race and even sex may play a role in terms of personal ability in various aspects of culture. It may not be a coincidence that so many Asians are in higher Education near the top of their classes. The dumb down approach wants to hide this.

In my opinion, this elephant in the room is partially due to genetics but is also caused by the long term affect of cultural training. Black culture is more tribal, which is more celebration; music and dance, and physical competition between tribes. Asian Culture is more about conformity to old rules and the ethic of hard work.

American Culture used to be a melting pot, so children could learn from all cultures, until the Left convince the ingredients to leave the pot. This was reflected in education with everything taught in 10 languages, instead of the one language. From a practical POV, learning English will provide the most opportunities in the USA. Specialty language can restrict one to a single city. This will limit opportunity.

Instead of learning the benefits of the common culture, which represents the best of all, there was a push back to cultural specialization, where not all cultures are good at everything. Again you fix that with the melting pot, so people can become well rounded and not pigeon holed. If you came from a third world culture, and was connived by the Left to celebrate this, one may not be able to fully leave the third world, even in a first world. This is good for Big Government since it creates problems to justify itself.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Your bias is blinding you to simple observation and common sense. And all your lying right wing-nut links don't justify any of this idiocy. In fact, it serves to prove the point that we really need to fix our public education so the generations of the future are not so easily deceived by bias and prejudice as you are.
CBS is a lying right wing nut link???

Are you ok?
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
In NYC. Not elsewhere in the state.

No rental should be $36,000 year. That is just pure raping people for their money.

Scary part is in Manhattan it's almost double at close to $6,000 a month.
I thought you believed in the free market???
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
When a country has a great emphasis on materialism, hedonism, and instant gratification [versus delayed], what should we expect? Is it the teachers' fault. Well, when some keep blaming them as a stereotype is it any wonder that almost all states are facing a teacher shortage?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Hardly :D - it’s statistical… :D We are breaking the mold and creating free thinkers.
Not according to research on this done in Michigan by the Detroit Free Press.

On top of this, these charter schools pick & choose which students they'll take whereas public schools have to accept those who walk in the door, plus charter schools have grown in popularity for segregationist reasons.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Can you have a conservative speaker in college without a violate outrage? so much for “free thinking”.
One, this discussion is not really about college.

Two, yes, colleges allow all kinds of speakers. But within the parameters of the degree paths being offered. A college campus is not the town square.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
When public schools push ideology instead of reading, writing, arithmetic et al - it does tend to make people robots instead of free-thinkers
And how do you know that charter schools and home-schooling parents don't?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Not according to research on this done in Michigan by the Detroit Free Press.

On top of this, these charter schools pick & choose which students they'll take whereas public schools have to accept those who walk in the door, plus charter schools have grown in popularity for segregationist reasons.
I’m going by statistics and not the Press. You can never trust the Press. :)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
And how do you know that charter schools and home-schooling parents don't?

I wasn’t referencing charter schools. I know about home-schooling because my 11 grandchildren are homeschooled in community. We teach them how to think and ask questions. :)

I’m biased, I’m sure… :D - but statistically, they do better in college if that is any help.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
....charter schools have grown in popularity for segregationist reasons.
I notice that you provided no evidence for this.
While possible, people I've known who sent kids
to charter schools did so for better quality.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I’m going by statistics and not the Press. You can never trust the Press. :)
Statistics do not really help because that is far too shallow of a look at this topic. And the press can be suspect at times. If you could find an AP or Reuters article on homeschooling it would probably not be biased, but I do not see them covering the topic. It would be interesting to see if a proper study of this could be done. As I pointed out I think that we would all agree that when a parent is involved in the education of their child that that child will do better. And homeschooling is done almost exclusively by parents that care about their child's education. So when you look at raw statistics you are not comparing properly. You would need to compare to how well they do to households with active parents to be accurate.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I wasn’t referencing charter schools. I know about home-schooling because my 11 grandchildren are homeschooled in community. We teach them how to think and ask questions. :)

I’m biased, I’m sure… :D - but statistically, they do better in college if that is any help.
You should remember that a child who is homeschooled probably have parent(s) that are least reasonably fairly well to well educated, whereas a child walking into a public school may have either well or poorly educated parents. If one wants to homeschool a child, they have that right, but then comparing that child to what comes in the door in a public school is an unfair comparison.

My wife is the product of the Catholic parochial school system, which is quite good here in s.e. Michigan. When it was time to have our kids start school, we had a decision to make, and even she said going to public school would be our best choice as we live, and I taught, in a good district. All three of our kids went to college with our oldest being a college professor, our middle child being a nurse who works for Hospice and co-owns an insurance agency, and our youngest owning his own construction company. Public school didn't seem to hurt them one iota.

There's also a financial reality that hurts public schools in particular, but I'll not get into that now.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Can you have a conservative speaker in college without a violate outrage? so much for “free thinking”.
The conservative persecution complex is something to behold. Campuses have Young Republican clubs, conservative speakers, conservatives fraternities, and conservative professors, and conservative students. They all exist.

Some conservatives, however, are beyond the pale of human decency. Milo Yannoupoulis? He made the college circuit. Milo Yiannopoulos - Wikipedia
 
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