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Abrahamic religions vs. Secularism
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
Thana
Lady
Oh dear, I almost didn't see you since you're so high up on that horse.
I wasn't aware you didn't worship the God of Abrahamic, Isaac & Moses. Might wanna change your "Religion" thing, you're just gonna confuse people.
You're a fundamentalist?
Baladas
An Págánach
Very, very true.
I understand that one may well dislike being compared to those groups, but some elaboration might help.
It is not the first time you reject being called an Abrahamic and also reject telling us why.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
I beg you pardon? I have explained it on multiple occasions. Just not recently.
Yeah because when people claim they worship the same God its always true.
I mean I just came out of the woods behind the house. Turns out that I am the last true prophet among mankind.
No way I could possibly lie about something like this. (in early 19th century "insert North American country" I would already have a small following)
So the Christians and Muslims tried to usurp our Religion. You now want me to accept them and their claims? That is ridiculous.
Both Islam and Christianity run a theology completely contrary to Judaism. In the past we could barely say something like this. But times have changed.
It's not our fault that Muslims and Christians are how they are. But to equate them with us is stupid.
So, I take it you acknowledge that there are other religions that take Abraham as their prophet, but don't see nearly enough common ground to justify collectively addressing Judaism with them as the Abrahamic Faiths?
I guess I agree. I will try to avoid doing so in the future.
I guess I agree. I will try to avoid doing so in the future.
Cry me a river. You're not special snowflakes.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Whether you regard them as following false prophets or not, Christians & Muslims have equal claim to the God of Abraham.
...I liked this because I can't bring myself to dislike a post referencing that movie. Damn it. ;_;
Hey Flankerl,
I'll admit the OP was sloppy, my apologies. It was really pointed at Christians and Muslims.
I wish Frankerl deigned me worthy of a clarification, but even so I don't think that is quite accurate, Nietzsche. All three Traditions claim to follow Abraham's God, certainly.
Whether it even makes sense to fit all three perspectives into a single conception of God is far more tentative.
Heck, it is very tentative to say that there are just three perspetives in any of those Traditions, let alone in the three together...
Levite
Higher and Higher
I actually wonder how much incidents like these, as with so many other problematic examples of religion clashing with secular culture, come from fundamentalist views rather than religion per se.
I think it would be a good idea not to conflate religion and fundamentalism. The two are not synonymous.
They may not be married, but they're certainly in a long-term relationship.
Well, my two cents.
Christians (not all) fight secularism not because it is secular or atheistic or whatever, but because it differs from the values they share with their interpretation of the Bible. For instance, if they do not like abortion, they do not simply say they dislike abortion, but delegate their God to be against abortion and whoever does not buy what God says is a danger to their values.
In other words: I doubt they really believe in Jesus. They just do not want things they do not like to happen in this world. I mean, If I really believed in Jesus,
First, they ignore us. Then they laugh at us. Then they fight us. And then they lose.
Ciao
- viole
On the other hand, if you are willing to pay attention, you may notice that secularism is spread by today's education system. Everyone stepping out of today's education system is basically secular by default unless he has a will to remain religious. Yet secularism isn't necessarily true, it's rather another form of religion.
Levite
Higher and Higher
Not in Judaism, certainly. And not in Islam, either, I think. Fundamentalism in both Judaism and Islam as persisting movements (rather than occasional outbreaks of zealotry) are really responses to the challenges of modernity that have arisen only since the 18th century. For Judaism, which measures time in millennia, this is still a passing fad. For Islam, which measures time in centuries, it's still a fairly short-term phenomenon. Only time will tell if fundamentalist movements actually persist in the long term in those religious communities.
It's harder to tell with Christianity, I think. While fundamentalism as a defined philosophy is new (turn of the 20th Century), Christian zealotry is ancient. But it's hard to tell when the aggression and oppression of Christian nations and churches in the past has been the result of institutionalized zealotry as a driving theoloy, or when Christian zealotry has merely been the mask or tool employed to facilitate aggression and oppression for the sake of politics or pursuit of wealth or imperialism and so forth.