rrobs
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct in saying p.c. belief is not enough. After all, the devil himself probably knows the scriptures better than any of us. He said many times something to the effect of, "it is written" and he was right. That just tells me we better know them too.The Sermon On the Mount, the Parable of the Sheep & Goats, the Parable of the Seed & Sower, the Parable of the Widow's Mite, and verses as found in James' and Paul's epistles say otherwise.
One of the keys to better understanding this is what the word "agape" actually entails, as the word "love" in English doesn't capture this. "Agape" in Koine Greek is an "active noun", namely that you live it out, not just have it cognitively.
Therefore, the concept that all one has to have is a p.c. belief about Jesus, such as the "Goats" did and yet were condemned, simply defies the gospel. Matter of fact, it's outright dangerous as it can lead to moral laziness while believing "I'm saved!".
I didn't mean to imply that just knowing the scriptures was enough. Sorry if I gave you that impression. I'll try to clarify.
As you said, the main thing is agape which I understand to be the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. We want to show the world that love that God has for all people and His desire that all be saved (John3:16, 1 Tim 2:4). The question is how to do that. Do we do it by monitoring our flesh, by counting our sins? Doing so is nothing less than looking at ourselves, at our sins. As Jesus and Paul both said, there is nothing worth a plug nickel in our flesh. But there is a better way. Instead of looking at our sins we look to the savior of our sins.
Eph 4:22-23,
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Before we were born again all our thoughts were earthly. That is all we knew. The scriptures tell us that the natural man, the un-born again man, can not know the things of God, that they are foolishness to him (1 Cor 2:14). But something miraculously wonderful happens when a man or woman gets born again; they get the mind of Christ.23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
1Cor 2:16,
For who hath come to know the mind of the Lord, that shall instruct him? But, we, have, the mind of Christ.
That is another part of the gift of holy spirit all believers get when they are born again. It was first given on the day of Pentecost. Peter assured the people that if they made Jesus Lord and believed God raised him from the dead they too would get holy spirit, which includes that mind of Christ. Suddenly we get the ability to know and understand God and His son, Jesus Christ. The scriptures are no longer foolishness. We can know who God is and what He has done for us. That includes all the verses I quoted concerning our righteousness and justification.
Eph 3:19,
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
What a wonderful revelation that is! We can know the love, the agape you mentioned, that comes from knowing Christ. As if that's not enough, it also says we are filled with all the fullness of God! What more could a fellow ask for?
However, as I said before in another post, God does not give us an "improved" flesh. We still have the same fleshy mind we had before we got born again. That does not change. God's work is a spiritual work within us. That brings me back to the renewed mind I mentioned.
It is up to the individual believer to replace all the fleshy thoughts with the thoughts of God which are in the scriptures. We have the mind of Christ, but until we "put it on" and renew our mind, we will still think thoughts of this world. That is of the utmost importance because our thoughts determine our beliefs and behavior.
Mark 11:23,
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Essentially this verse says that whatever we believe is what we get. If we look to ourselves for perfection we will fail every time. We know we sin. If we say we don't we make God a liar (1 John 1:10). Deep down, we know we sin. We all have a conscious that does not lie. That is all covered in Romans. So when we look to ourselves we see sin and therefor we sin.
But when we renew our minds to the scriptures, when we put on that mind of Christ, we eventually end up believing that we do have the righteousness of God (Rom 3:22), that we have been justified (Rom 3:24). Therefore, as Jesus said in Mark, we end up actually acting righteous and justified. We end up showing forth the agape to all the world. Is that not the goal for all Christians?
It is of the utmost importance that we realize that all of this is made possible by grace. That is why I say grace is a get out of jail card free. There is no way we can manifest agape by relying on our own works. It all depends on the complete work of our savior, Jesus Christ. We need to change our thoughts from worldly thoughts to heavenly thoughts before we have any chance of doing God's will. How can we possibly do His will until we know what it is? It is revealed in the scriptures. That is why we need to renew our minds to align with His thoughts contained in the scriptures.
I know I'm a sinner, but God says I'm as righteous as He Himself. Who should I believe? Me or God? Well, for me that is a no brainer. I need to change the thoughts of myself to His thoughts about me. Again, doing so will make my walk closer to that of Jesus Christ. It begins in the mind and it will end up manifesting into the senses world.
2Cor 3:17-18,
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.
This verse says exactly what I've tried to say. As we look, not at ourselves, nor at our own actions, but at the Lord, we slowly but surely change to be more like him.18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Any person that looks to the scriptures to see what God has done for, in, and to them will never ever live a life of debauchery. That seems to be a common accusation whenever grace comes up as a way of life. I've heard many times, "so you think you can go on sinning as much as you want because of grace?" That is absolutely ludicrous. No, I don't think that at all. What I do think is that I was dead in trespasses and sins and that Jesus sacrificed his own life so that I might live for eternity. I am filled with so much awe and gratitude to God and His son that the last thing I want to do is be a bad witness for them.
The more I know the scriptures, the more I keep them in my mind, the more I want to be like him. And, lo and behold, I do see myself naturally living a more Christ like life. But I will never rely on my own righteousness or actions. I do not try to "reign in" my flesh in any way, shape, or form. That got me nowhere before and it never will get me anywhere. Instead I look to Jesus, the author and finisher of my faith. I keep my eyes on him, and he transforms me day by day to be more like him. End of story!
I hope I'm not bombarding you with too much talk. That is certainly not my intention. It's just that I'm so excited about what God has done for me that I can't help myself from proclaiming the greatness of Jesus' work to anybody who will listen. I am grateful to you for not just blowing me off as is so often the case. I appreciate our conversation. I think you are a fine man in every sense of the word. You are a true brother. I look forward to meeting you face to face when Jesus appears the second time to gather us together. God bless.