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A Follow Up On Neutrinos

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Photonic, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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  2. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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  3. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Depends on a great many factors.

    Is the specific flavor of neutrino the only exception? Is the entire theory off its rocker?

    There needs to be many more experiments to see if what we are seeing is actually what is occurring, and if so, how far does the "hole" go.
     
  4. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it could ultimately mean nothing of great significance in the long run.

    It would just be nice to live during the next great paradigm shift in physics. You know, give a kind little dose of hope for the future of humanity.
     
  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    If it's true then it's back to square one, or at least square two, something no one should be happy with.
     
  6. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    No one should be happy about? Are you crazy?!


    This is a huge leap forward even if we have to backtrack!

    This is the true beauty of science, I love it!
     
  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I think it's better if what we already consider to be true actually turns out to be true. The less false avenues we have to backtrack on the better.
     
  8. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    It is probably because I am a scientist but I see it completely differently.


    Right or wrong, its a step in the right direction either way.
     
  9. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Chatte Féministe

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    Back in the day Lord Kelvin once said that physics is finished except for two small clouds on the horizon...

    Those "small clouds" ended up evolving into relativity and quantum mechanics.
     
  10. PolyHedral

    PolyHedral Superabacus Mystic

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    We aren't done yet.
    OPERA Confirms: Neutrinos Travel Faster Than Light!!


     
  11. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Are you kidding?
    PhD candidates are salivating at the chance to overturn the apple cart.
    Science is so interesting because things are always more complex than we thought.
    And ultimately, this will lead to better bacon.
     
  13. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Not those ways that lead up false avenues. I see them as wasted effort; not that they are unavoidable. The more often we can hit the bullseye the better.

    Sorry but I find progress more important than the orgasmic needs of salivating want-to-bes.

    Okay. I simply haven't found complexity itself to be necessarily more interesting.

    For your sake I hope so.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    I have never accepted light speed was the limit.


    If you took and built a pole from the equator at a certain height the pole would be moving at light speed. make the pole 1' longer and the tip will be moving faster then lights speed.


    With us only being a advanced civilization for a short 100-200 years if that long. I can be certain we are a long way from understanding everything
     
  15. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Interesting notion. My guess, and that's all it is, is that you would never be able to construct that last inch so as to survive a fraction of an attosecond.
     
  16. PolyHedral

    PolyHedral Superabacus Mystic

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    The tip never moves at light speed, disregarding the fact that you eventually break all possible materials. The tip always moves slightly faster, but the speed difference gets smaller as the pole gets longer. I could do the math if you like. :p
     
  17. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    hypothetical of course :)
     
  18. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    danged math!!!! GGrr LOL :D

    but could the math be wrong if lightspeed is not the speed limit ?
     
  19. PolyHedral

    PolyHedral Superabacus Mystic

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    Yes, but it is, so there. :D (at least, it is for linear time. Non-linear time gets wibbly-wobbly very very quickly.)
     
    #19 PolyHedral, Nov 19, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  20. Leonardo

    Leonardo Active Member

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    Well the neutrinos aren't moving much faster than light, which brings forth the term "The invariant velocity" aka to the layperson speed of light. But not really so, you see photons may have rest mass which means they can't reach the invariant speed, so neutrinos which do have rest mass may actually have less rest mass than photons! Which would explain why they can move faster than photons. If we calculate the difference between the velocity of photons to those of neutrinos than we get the mass difference between the two and then...we can get the invariant velocity. Fun stuff!:drool:

    But looking at the Lorentz factor there can be imaginary mass. This is where the Lorentz factor can produce solutions to negative terms, in other words moving faster than the invariant speed, You see mass can not be accelerated or pushed to the invariant speed because it would take infinite energy to do so. With imaginary mass by the same token can not be decelerated to the invariant speed. But ending up faster than the invariant speed is not illegal. So what moves without acceleration? Photons do not accelerate to their velocity, they just end up moving at 300,000 km per second, nothing pushes them to get to that speed. If the neutrinos truely are moving faster than photons, then photons have mass and that would mean that rest mass can be intialized to a velocity without any need to acclerate it, at least at the quantum level...
     
    #20 Leonardo, Nov 19, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
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