A Follow Up On Neutrinos

[Photonic]

UPDATE 2-New test finds neutrinos still faster than light | Reuters

Doesn't appear to be an experiment error this time.

 

[Straw Dog]

UPDATE 2-New test finds neutrinos still faster than light | Reuters

Doesn't appear to be an experiment error this time.

This is exciting stuff. If neutrinos can go faster than the speed of light, then could we potentially as well someday?

 

[Photonic]

This is exciting stuff. If neutrinos can go faster than the speed of light, then could we potentially as well someday?

Depends on a great many factors.

Is the specific flavor of neutrino the only exception? Is the entire theory off its rocker?

There needs to be many more experiments to see if what we are seeing is actually what is occurring, and if so, how far does the "hole" go.

 

[Straw Dog]

Depends on a great many factors.

Is the specific flavor of neutrino the only exception? Is the entire theory off its rocker?

There needs to be many more experiments to see if what we are seeing is actually what is occurring, and if so, how far does the "hole" go.

Yeah, it could ultimately mean nothing of great significance in the long run.

It would just be nice to live during the next great paradigm shift in physics. You know, give a kind little dose of hope for the future of humanity.

 

[Skwim]

If it's true then it's back to square one, or at least square two, something no one should be happy with.

 

[Photonic]

If it's true then it's back to square one, or at least square two, something no one should be happy with.

No one should be happy about? Are you crazy?!


This is a huge leap forward even if we have to backtrack!

This is the true beauty of science, I love it!

 

[Skwim]

No one should be happy about? Are you crazy?!


This is a huge leap forward even if we have to backtrack!

This is the true beauty of science, I love it!

I think it's better if what we already consider to be true actually turns out to be true. The less false avenues we have to backtrack on the better.

 

[Photonic]

I think it's better if what we already consider to be true actually turns out to be true. The less false avenues we have to backtrack on the better.

It is probably because I am a scientist but I see it completely differently.


Right or wrong, its a step in the right direction either way.

 

[Meow Mix]

Back in the day Lord Kelvin once said that physics is finished except for two small clouds on the horizon...

Those "small clouds" ended up evolving into relativity and quantum mechanics.

 

[PolyHedral]

We aren't done yet.
OPERA Confirms: Neutrinos Travel Faster Than Light!!

It is necessary here to note that since distance from source to detector and time offsets necessary to determine the travel time of neutrinos have not been remeasured, the related systematics (estimated as well as -possibly- underestimated ones) are unchanged. The measurement therefore is only a "partial" confirmation of the earlier result: it is consistent with it, but could be just as wrong as the other.​

​

 

[Photonic]

We aren't done yet.
OPERA Confirms: Neutrinos Travel Faster Than Light!!


[/INDENT]

I never implied it was completely conclusive, if that's what you mean.

 

[Revoltingest]

If it's true then it's back to square one, or at least square two, something no one should be happy with.

Are you kidding?
PhD candidates are salivating at the chance to overturn the apple cart.
Science is so interesting because things are always more complex than we thought.
And ultimately, this will lead to better bacon.

 

[Skwim]

It is probably because I am a scientist but I see it completely differently.


Right or wrong, its a step in the right direction either way.

Not those ways that lead up false avenues. I see them as wasted effort; not that they are unavoidable. The more often we can hit the bullseye the better.

Are you kidding?
PhD candidates are salivating at the chance to overturn the apple cart.

Sorry but I find progress more important than the orgasmic needs of salivating want-to-bes.

Science is so interesting because things are always more complex than we thought.

Okay. I simply haven't found complexity itself to be necessarily more interesting.

And ultimately, this will lead to better bacon.

For your sake I hope so.

 

[outhouse]

If it's true then it's back to square one, or at least square two, something no one should be happy with.

I have never accepted light speed was the limit.


If you took and built a pole from the equator at a certain height the pole would be moving at light speed. make the pole 1' longer and the tip will be moving faster then lights speed.


With us only being a advanced civilization for a short 100-200 years if that long. I can be certain we are a long way from understanding everything

 

[Skwim]

I have never accepted light speed was the limit.


If you took and built a pole from the equator at a certain height the pole would be moving at light speed. make the pole 1' longer and the tip will be moving faster then lights speed.

Interesting notion. My guess, and that's all it is, is that you would never be able to construct that last inch so as to survive a fraction of an attosecond.

 

[PolyHedral]

I have never accepted light speed was the limit.


If you took and built a pole from the equator at a certain height the pole would be moving at light speed. make the pole 1' longer and the tip will be moving faster then lights speed.


With us only being a advanced civilization for a short 100-200 years if that long. I can be certain we are a long way from understanding everything

The tip never moves at light speed, disregarding the fact that you eventually break all possible materials. The tip always moves slightly faster, but the speed difference gets smaller as the pole gets longer. I could do the math if you like.

 

[outhouse]

Interesting notion. My guess, and that's all it is, is that you would never be able to construct that last inch so as to survive a fraction of an attosecond.

hypothetical of course

 

[outhouse]

The tip never moves at light speed, disregarding the fact that you eventually break all possible materials. The tip always moves slightly faster, but the speed difference gets smaller as the pole gets longer. I could do the math if you like.

danged math!!!! GGrr LOL

but could the math be wrong if lightspeed is not the speed limit ?

 

[PolyHedral]

danged math!!!! GGrr LOL

but could the math be wrong if lightspeed is not the speed limit ?

Yes, but it is, so there. (at least, it is for linear time. Non-linear time gets wibbly-wobbly very very quickly.)

 

[Leonardo]

This is exciting stuff. If neutrinos can go faster than the speed of light, then could we potentially as well someday?

Well the neutrinos aren't moving much faster than light, which brings forth the term "The invariant velocity" aka to the layperson speed of light. But not really so, you see photons may have rest mass which means they can't reach the invariant speed, so neutrinos which do have rest mass may actually have less rest mass than photons! Which would explain why they can move faster than photons. If we calculate the difference between the velocity of photons to those of neutrinos than we get the mass difference between the two and then...we can get the invariant velocity. Fun stuff!:drool:

But looking at the Lorentz factor there can be imaginary mass. This is where the Lorentz factor can produce solutions to negative terms, in other words moving faster than the invariant speed, You see mass can not be accelerated or pushed to the invariant speed because it would take infinite energy to do so. With imaginary mass by the same token can not be decelerated to the invariant speed. But ending up faster than the invariant speed is not illegal. So what moves without acceleration? Photons do not accelerate to their velocity, they just end up moving at 300,000 km per second, nothing pushes them to get to that speed. If the neutrinos truely are moving faster than photons, then photons have mass and that would mean that rest mass can be intialized to a velocity without any need to acclerate it, at least at the quantum level...