12 dead in Virginia Beach mass shooting

[Stevicus]

But WHY would we want to know this? I think it's so we can gain some sense of control of the phenomenon. Pretty much everything we humans think and do is for the sake of gaining either actual control, or imagined control of the world around us. Because we humans survive and thrive based on our ability to control/anticipate our environment, (including each other).
Again, WHY do you think we want to understand this? I think it's the same reason we want to understand anything, or at least imagine that we understand: so we can anticipate/control it. Victim-blaming is a very common and easy way that we humans imagine that we have control of our circumstances, even when we don't. And make no mistake, we will choose to imagine that we have control even when we don't, over having to face the frightening reality of our actual lack of control.

So when something like this happens, we all become frightened, because it's a glaring reminder of our vulnerable lack of control. And we respond by searching for any means of regaining that control, real or imagined. And that's WHY we are all so 'fascinated' by these events. It's also why we have such a hard time recognizing even the most basic solutions, and implementing them. Because in truth, we are all 'freaked out' by these blatant reminders of our constant vulnerability and our lack of control over the circumstance of our own lives.

As for why people want to understand, it may also be due to wanting to understand the human mind so as to support and implement measures to improve the human condition. It's a way of learning from our mistakes. For example, some may recognize that crime is a symptom of poverty, abuse, addiction, poor education, lack of opportunity - things that society has a vested interest in addressing and changing. That's how human society can progress - and much of it has been through trial and error.

In any case, wanting to understand why things happen is better than not wanting to understand. And there are those who probably don't want to know or understand why he did it, but would rather expend their energies expressing rage and contempt for the perpetrator - which is certainly well-deserved, but also a waste of energy and intellect. I feel it's better to put that energy to use to try to logically analyze just what is going on and try to see the cause and effect between events.

In regards to victim-blaming, I don't deny that it exists, although I think it's sometimes exaggerated. I've known guys who left their wallets on the counter in a crowded bar, come back hours later and find that it was gone. Even they would acknowledge that it was stupidity and carelessness on their part. Obviously, the thief was to blame, but pointing out the mistakes of the victim in order to learn how to avoid it from happening again should not be considered out of bounds. Others may also learn from those mistakes.

 

[PureX]

As for why people want to understand, it may also be due to wanting to understand the human mind so as to support and implement measures to improve the human condition.

Then why haven't we done so? It's not like the solutions are so difficult to recognize or understand, ... if we weren't all frantically grasping for whatever foolish delusion gave us back a sense of control, first.

It's a way of learning from our mistakes. For example, some may recognize that crime is a symptom of poverty, abuse, addiction, poor education, lack of opportunity - things that society has a vested interest in addressing and changing. That's how human society can progress - and much of it has been through trial and error.

I have seen hardly anyone learning anything from the ongoing and nearly countless litany of violent atrocities being committed on a weekly basis in this country. All I see is the desperate grasp for imaginary control measures intensifying almost exponentially. Gun, guns, and more guns, border walls that won't work, death penalties that won't work, we react to violence with more violence because we become insane with fear when we have to face the reality of our own true vulnerability and lack of control, especially relative to each other.

In any case, wanting to understand why things happen is better than not wanting to understand.

Yes, if that's really what we were doing. But sadly, it does not appear to be in most instances, by most people.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Take away their guns and let them kill people the same way Aussies do; with clubs, knives and automobiles.

No one's claiming reducing gun numbers will stop ALL violent acts, but by all means compare the number of mass casualty violent events we've had in Australia in the last 20 years to the number America has had in the same time period. Feel free to adjust for per capita if you think the raw numbers are misleading

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Many others will take his place though, unfortunately.

I'm anti-gun and all for making it harder for people to murder other people, but they'll will just come up with different ways to do it... always have. The line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't want to get arrested for posession of fishing string or a plastic bag.

When was the last time 12 people were killed by an asailant with fishing line?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What do you think would have stopped this from happening?

Thoughts and prayers

 

[Epic Beard Man]

***Update*** info on the shooter

"Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms......"

Some reports also indicated he was fired. Perhaps sounds like this quiet guy was sent over the edge.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Blanket ban on gun possession. Anybody caught with a gun gets 10 years minimum.

That wont happen

 

[Epic Beard Man]

 

[metis]

How about... and I know it sounds crazy, but try to follow me... how about... just blue skying here... but how about... reducing the number of firearms in circulation and increasing the safety measures around them?

Doesn't sound crazy to me.

OTOH, changing nothing we do in response except just to complain sounds real crazy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why would criminals bother to buy insuranc

Most gun deaths arent at the hands of criminals. Very often, gun violence is unplanned, spontaneous/heat of the moment, and/or suicide. And if insurance was made to get involved, the NRA would find themselves politically with a gag in their mouth because insurance very often gets its way and calls lots of shots. Which means we just might see a push towards things we need, like mandatory reporting of all list and stolen firearms and mandatory safety instruction.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Doesn't sound crazy to me.

OTOH, changing nothing we do in response except just to complain sounds really crazy.

At this point, doing nothing or doing nothing more than "thoughts and prayers" is criminal negligence and abetting future crimes.

 

[Stanyon]

Blanket ban on gun possession. Anybody caught with a gun gets 10 years minimum.

A woman is about to be raped and is overpowered by a man , she keeps a gun for protection despite the new law, she pulls it out and shoots the man to stop him, injuring him. Police come and arrest both, she get's ten years mandatory for having a firearm and has to pay for his hospitalization, he gets five years for attempted rape and get's out in two for good behaviour.
Fair?
These are the types of things we need to think about. There are plenty of stories from the U.K. where victims of crimes are prosecuted for defending themselves even during home invasions, not what I would like to see here in the U.S.
If I remember correctly current federal law already states a mandatory 5 or 10 year sentence (just off the top of my head, may be wrong) for convcited felons with a gun and it hasn't seemed to stop much.

 

[Stanyon]

Insurance would be cost prohibitive for poorer people who suffer the most from violent crime and they may want one for self protection, if they use one in self defense with no insurance would you be willing to fine and send them to prison making them a felon because they weren't able to afford the insurance?

In the end under that idea only the more well off would be able to afford the insurance which would be little different than in the days of kings and queens where only the wealthy and nobles were able to own weapons.

 

[KelseyR]

Time to sell more weapons. It's an American right.

 

[oldbadger]

Just out of curiosity, how would they find these uninsured guns? Usually, when caches of firearms are found in a raid, it's in conjunction with other crimes which are far more serious.

I can see that you are having trouble with this suggestion.

Before we worry about how to find 'bad' guns, let's recognise that many guns used in murders and injuries are 'good' guns at this time.

But more important still, do you think that it is important that every gun injury victim, and every gun murder dependent relative should have full and complete financial compensation for all costs, support, education for children, and medical services etc etc after such an incident? Would you if you got shot? Of course you would! There you go..... the common sense of mandatory gun insurance for all gun owners and users.

Of course some idiots and many villains won't insure their guns, but thousands and thousands of unsuitable applicants for gun insurance would get turned down, and so they would have to sell or give up their guns.

At this time nobody has to insure their gun, and if you can imagine what it would be like if nobody had to insure their truck or car that might help you to see the fuller picture.

Don't worry..... it'll never happen in the US. Nothing about guns will ever happen in the US.

 

[oldbadger]

Insurance would be cost prohibitive for poorer people who suffer the most from violent crime and they may want one for self protection, if they use one in self defense with no insurance would you be willing to fine and send them to prison making them a felon because they weren't able to afford the insurance?

In the end under that idea only the more well off would be able to afford the insurance which would be little different than in the days of kings and queens where only the wealthy and nobles were able to own weapons.

I know...... Insurance is so cost prohibitive for the poor. And so why don't States pass legislation to allow poor folks to drive their vehicles without insurance?

Of course, the USA should be doing much much more to balance the financial scales, but we'll leave that one for now.

 

[oldbadger]

This is just punishing non-criminal gun owners which crimes will avoid anyways.

Like punishing non-criminal vehicle owners ..?

There's your problem........ lots of gun owners have accidents, and they need to be insured for all risks. If not, why do they have to insure their businesses and cars etc?

Gun insurance should be compulsory anyways.....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Blanket ban on gun possession. Anybody caught with a gun gets 10 years minimum.

No. That removes hunting for those who depend on it, fails to even address the actual problems, will fail to keep people safe (Criminals will still have them here for the foreseeable future), and it fails to ask what all gun violence entails. Suicide awareness and prevention is going to save more lives than a blanket ban on guns (and bans really never work anyways) (suicide does make up a massive chunk of gun deaths).

 

[sayak83]

A woman is about to be raped and is overpowered by a man , she keeps a gun for protection despite the new law, she pulls it out and shoots the man to stop him, injuring him. Police come and arrest both, she get's ten years mandatory for having a firearm and has to pay for his hospitalization, he gets five years for attempted rape and get's out in two for good behaviour.
Fair?
These are the types of things we need to think about. There are plenty of stories from the U.K. where victims of crimes are prosecuted for defending themselves even during home invasions, not what I would like to see here in the U.S.
If I remember correctly current federal law already states a mandatory 5 or 10 year sentence (just off the top of my head, may be wrong) for convcited felons with a gun and it hasn't seemed to stop much.

Rape attempt gets life...

 

[Obsydian]

No one's claiming reducing gun numbers will stop ALL violent acts, but by all means compare the number of mass casualty violent events we've had in Australia in the last 20 years to the number America has had in the same time period. Feel free to adjust for per capita if you think the raw numbers are misleading

When was the last time 12 people were killed by an asailant with fishing line?

It'd be silly and pointless for me to debate with someone whose side that I'm on. (I can understand how you'd think otherwise with my joking, though.) The only point I was making is that humans are violent creatures, but everybody else knows that, anyway.

As for the mass killing people with fishing line... I saw something similar happen on an episode of The Walking Dead. But the ex-people it happened to were already dead, so I guess it doesn't count. That, and it's a fictional TV show.

Since I mostly feel indifferent to the hot topics, I think I'll just stick to the bizarre/gross/sex threads from now on.

(Disappointing reply, I know!)