12 dead in Virginia Beach mass shooting

[Terrywoodenpic]

People will alway kill other people for one reason or another.

Guns make it easier to do, and at a longer range.
Automatic guns make it faster and can kill more people.

Knivess are slower, up close and personal, sometimes stealthier.

Bombs are more difficult to get or make, but can kill more people at one time but often require self sacrifice.
And planning.

Mass killings are less likely with out the availability of guns.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Guns make it easier to do, and a longer range.
Automatic guns make it faster and can kill more people.

I think that fact makes people uncomfortable, because it makes wanton gun ownership very difficult to justify, as killing and maiming are the uses nd functions of a gun. And even the guns earliest ancestors tiltes the favor of war heavily and decisively in a favor of those packing heat, as it does over every other weapon still today. Blades, bows, blunt, a gun is superior to them all.

 

[oldbadger]

How would you implement the reduction of firearms and how would you increase safety measures?

-Most gun crime occurs in poorer neighbourhoods.

-Most gun crime is committed by people who are not legally capable of having one.

Introduce compulsory all risks insurance cover for all guns .

Accident and crime victims and their families would be better protected, and the insurers would then sift out many high risks and demand training and qualifications .

This would help.

Of course, more actions would be necessary but that's a start.

 

[Stevicus]

Virginia Beach shooting leaves 12 dead at municipal center - CNN

Apparently the shooter was a disgruntled employee for the city.

The shooting suspect was identified as DeWayne Craddock, according to a law enforcement official and a Virginia government source.

Craddock, 40, worked as a certified professional engineer for the city of Virginia Beach in the Public Utilities Department. He is listed on department news releases as a point of contact for information on local road projects over the past several years.

Authorities are investigating a possible motive.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Introduce compulsory all risks insurance cover for all guns .

Accident and crime victims and their families would be better protected, and the insurers would then sift out many high risks and demand training and qualifications .

This would help.

Of course, more actions would be necessary but that's a start.

Why would criminals bother to buy insurance?
How would having insurance stop them killing people?
How would insurance prevent accidents?
How would it prevent the use of unlicensed weapons?

When did Insurance ever prevent anything?
Health, motor accidents, acts of God?
insurance is about mitigating individual costs, by way of a lucrative business model.

 

[oldbadger]

Why would criminals bother to buy insurance?
How would having insurance stop them killing people?
How would insurance prevent accidents?
How would it prevent the use of unlicensed weapons?

When did Insurance ever prevent anything?
Health, motor accidents, acts of God?
insurance is about mitigating individual costs, by way of a lucrative business model.

Firstly, if you believe in car insurance then you probably believe in gun insurance . If not, why not?
Secondly, any gun not on the insurance database can be seized, just like cars here are seized
Thirdly, insurance companies would need to pay in to a victim compensation pool just like we have here for car crime

If you don't believe in insurance, then you'll never be claiming for any damages
...

Being found with an uninsured gun is a crime, and this has to help

Do you believe in car insurance?

 

[sooda]

Introduce compulsory all risks insurance cover for all guns .

Accident and crime victims and their families would be better protected, and the insurers would then sift out many high risks and demand training and qualifications .

This would help.

Of course, more actions would be necessary but that's a start.

Sounds like a great idea to me...…..

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Firstly, if you believe in car insurance then you probably believe in gun insurance . If not, why not?
Secondly, any gun not on the insurance database can be seized, just like cars here are seized
Thirdly, insurance companies would need to pay in to a victim compensation pool just like we have here for car crime

If you don't believe in insurance, then you'll never be claiming for any damages
...

Being found with an uninsured gun is a crime, and this has to help

Do you believe in car insurance?

Car insurance is not a religion and something to believe in.
However minimum Third party insurance is compulsory but still not held by many offenders.

I have insurance on my car and my house, and before I retired I had life insurance.
I only insure things that I could not cover the cost of myself, as paying for such things yourself is always cheaper in the long run.

I have never had a claim on my car or my house. The premiums that I have paid throughout my life have been total profit to the insurance companies.
A very rich person would be far better off not paying for insurance. and many such people and businesses do indeed self insure.
That is to say, they maintain and invest in a pot to cover all such contingencies.

Insurance is not about prevention. it is a pre-payment model.

 

[oldbadger]

Car insurance is not a religion and something to believe in.
However minimum Third party insurance is compulsory but still not held by many offenders.

I have insurance on my car and my house, and before I retired I had life insurance.
I only insure things that I could not cover the cost of myself, as paying for such things yourself is always cheaper in the long run.

I have never had a claim on my car or my house. The premiums that I have paid throughout my life have been total profit to the insurance companies.
A very rich person would be far better off not paying for insurance. and many such people and businesses do indeed self insure.
That is to say, they maintain and invest in a pot to cover all such contingencies.

Insurance is not about prevention. it is a pre-payment model.

And so compulsory all risks gun insurance would be a no brainer.

Very rich folks can obtain a certificate of cover, just as with insurance. All others would pay a premium.

But insurers have a right to research and refuse cover.

Uninsured guns could be seized every time, and holders be convicted of a gun crime.

This would be the first reasonable step of more to come.

It makes sense.

 

[Stevicus]

And so compulsory all risks gun insurance would be a no brainer.

Very rich folks can obtain a certificate of cover, just as with insurance. All others would pay a premium.

But insurers have a right to research and refuse cover.

Uninsured guns could be seized every time, and holders be convicted of a gun crime.

This would be the first reasonable step of more to come.

It makes sense.

Just out of curiosity, how would they find these uninsured guns? Usually, when caches of firearms are found in a raid, it's in conjunction with other crimes which are far more serious.

 

[PureX]

11 people killed in Virginia Beach active shooter situation, 6 taken to hospital including police officer

The shooter is also dead. They believe he was a longtime city employee, but no motive has been determined as of yet.

I don't see that the motive really matters. It's not going to justify the actions taken.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't see that the motive really matters. It's not going to justify the actions taken.

You're correct, it doesn't justify it, but it might explain things a bit. Whenever things like this happen, it's natural for people to want to know why.

 

[Shad]

Introduce compulsory all risks insurance cover for all guns .

Accident and crime victims and their families would be better protected, and the insurers would then sift out many high risks and demand training and qualifications .

This would help.

Of course, more actions would be necessary but that's a start.

This is just punishing non-criminal gun owners which crimes will avoid anyways.

 

[PureX]

You're correct, it doesn't justify it, but it might explain things a bit. Whenever things like this happen, it's natural for people to want to know why.

Sadly, I think what people want to know is that it won't happen to them. They want an excuse to blame the victims so they can presume they won't be victims, themselves. It's why we keep insisting that having more guns will protect us, when every study ever done shows that the opposite is true. It's why we focus on blaming others instead of our own complicity. And the dead just keep on piling up. But so long as it's not us, or anyone we love ... well, so what?

 

[pearl]

I worry that people are so easily led that the Trump sentiment and acceptance of violent behavior is bringing these killings on... ???

And should Trump loose it may mark the end of the history of a 'peaceful' transition of power.

 

[PureX]

I worry that people are so easily led that the Trump sentiment and acceptance of violent behavior is bringing these killings on... ???

Trump is just the mascot. The lust for violence as a first and only solution to any social problem has always been a dominant part of our culture. But it wasn't always being exploited for power and profit like it is being exploited for that, now.

 

[sayak83]

What do you think would have stopped this from happening?

Blanket ban on gun possession. Anybody caught with a gun gets 10 years minimum.

 

[Stevicus]

Sadly, I think what people want to know is that it won't happen to them. They want an excuse to blame the victims so they can presume they won't be victims, themselves. It's why we keep insisting that having more guns will protect us, when every study ever done shows that the opposite is true. It's why we focus on blaming others instead of our own complicity. And the dead just keep on piling up. But so long as it's not us, or anyone we love ... well, so what?

I guess I don't really read it the same way. I don't think people want to know motives in order to blame the victims. It's probably more a desire to understand the mind of the perpetrator. What drives people to such an act? Most people don't do things like that, so it's possible that they want to know what's inside the minds of people who do.

Similarly, I've noticed that a lot of people have an interest in serial killers; people are fascinated with it. It has nothing to do with justification or blaming the victims, but in wanting to understand the depths of the human psyche and the overall environment in our society which leads people to commit these kinds of acts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not so sure you are right. At least not so many as now.

If you blame Trump for the perceived increase in mass shootings,
do you also blame him for the drop in violent crime since he became Prez?
U.S.: violent crime rate graph 1990-2017 | Statista

Public perceptions of crime are often at odds with the data.
Ref...
America's Faulty Perception of Crime Rates

 

[PureX]

I guess I don't really read it the same way. I don't think people want to know motives in order to blame the victims. It's probably more a desire to understand the mind of the perpetrator. What drives people to such an act? Most people don't do things like that, so it's possible that they want to know what's inside the minds of people who do.

But WHY would we want to know this? I think it's so we can gain some sense of control of the phenomenon. Pretty much everything we humans think and do is for the sake of gaining either actual control, or imagined control of the world around us. Because we humans survive and thrive based on our ability to control/anticipate our environment, (including each other).

Similarly, I've noticed that a lot of people have an interest in serial killers; people are fascinated with it. It has nothing to do with justification or blaming the victims, but in wanting to understand the depths of the human psyche and the overall environment in our society which leads people to commit these kinds of acts.

Again, WHY do you think we want to understand this? I think it's the same reason we want to understand anything, or at least imagine that we understand: so we can anticipate/control it. Victim-blaming is a very common and easy way that we humans imagine that we have control of our circumstances, even when we don't. And make no mistake, we will choose to imagine that we have control even when we don't, over having to face the frightening reality of our actual lack of control.

So when something like this happens, we all become frightened, because it's a glaring reminder of our vulnerable lack of control. And we respond by searching for any means of regaining that control, real or imagined. And that's WHY we are all so 'fascinated' by these events. It's also why we have such a hard time recognizing even the most basic solutions, and implementing them. Because in truth, we are all 'freaked out' by these blatant reminders of our constant vulnerability and our lack of control over the circumstance of our own lives. So freaked out that we will grasp at anything to regain that illusion of being in control. Lies, victim-blaming, scape-goating, fantasizing, whatever gets us back to our illusions of safety and control, quickest.