Jesus Prayed

IndigoChild5559 said:

You keep using this phrase. It is not necessary. If you simply say Jews, I will know you are speaking about those who are considered Jews by Jewish law.

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But maybe that's based on myth, would you say?

Eli G said:

Like who?

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does it matter their names? no.

Eli G said:

So, you don't even believe that Moses was a real man who lived in Egypt, hehehehe.
This world is getting crazier every day; these new age "scholars" are killing the history just because.

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You really do have a reading comprehension problem. My prior answer made it clear that I think Moses is a historical person.

YoursTrue said:

But maybe that's based on myth, would you say?

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The law is not a myth. You really have problems discerning genre, don't you.

Eli G said:

Authentic Jews ... not modern Jews. Sorry, but I am being honest: I don't consider modern Jews like biblical Jews for the reasons I already told you.

And you telling me that you are a Jew but don't believe in Adam, Enoch, Noah, Moses ... confirms I am very much right on my perspective.

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You're saying you don't think Jews today are real Jews? Well, now at least you have shown your antisemitism for all the room to see.

IndigoChild5559 said:

does it matter their names? no.

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It matters when you want to be taken seriously in this issue.

I don't believe any authentic Jew consider Adan, Enoch, Noah or Moses as myths.

I wish there would be here a real Jew to tell the real thing about your position, cause I think you may be considered by other Jews like an apostate or something like that.

Good night.

YoursTrue said:

First of all, who was (or is) Sai Baba. Please excuse my not knowing.

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Sathya Sai Baba was the Poorna Avatar of this Age, born in India in 1926

YoursTrue said:

And secondly, why do you say they were the most amazing years of your life?

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Imagine you had the chance to meet and stay with Jesus. Well, that is why those years were the most amazing years of my life

Viker said:

What the hell is a Jewish?

Is this something apart from a Jew?

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People who say "a Jewish" are obviously people who are still learning the english language.

Eli G said:

It matters when you want to be taken seriously in this issue.

I don't believe any authentic Jew consider Adan, Enoch, Noah or Moses as myths.

I wish there would be here a real Jew to tell the real thing about your position, cause I think you may be considered by other Jews like an apostate or something like that.

Good night.

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No, I think it is plain for your continual personal attacks (such as inferring that I'm not an authentic Jew, etc.) that it is not worth my while for me to try to dig up historical specifics. Your mind is made up that Genesis 1 is literal history and everyone who says otherwise is [insert insult].

IndigoChild5559 said:

No, I think it is plain for your continual personal attacks (such as inferring that I'm not an authentic Jew, etc.) that it is not worth my while for me to try to dig up historical specifics. Your mind is made up that Genesis 1 is literal history and everyone who says otherwise is [insert insult].

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You are taking my posts to you in the wrong way. The one who is trying to accuse me of something is you.

I am just saying that I don't consider modern Jews the same as biblical Jews, and I already gave you my reasons. It does not mean absolutly anything about antisemitism as you are trying to put on me ...

Even if I don't see modern Jews like I consider biblical Jews, YOU are a special case to me, cause I never heard of modern Jews, not only biblical Jews, saying those things you say; that the Bible contains myths, really? Is that a modern Jewish thing?

You said others think like you, but you didn´t prove that. You may be talking about your group of "Jews" friends in the university? Well, I don't need their names; now I understand what you mean.

Have you tell what you think about Adan and Noah to your rabbi? I guess you have a few of them in your synagogue.

Now I can sleep in peace. You may too, cause you are taking things a little too much personal without real reasons. And YES, I am learning English, but I am very proud about the point I had reached on my studies. Isn't it a pretty nice English to you?

Again: good night.

Eli G said:

You are taking my posts to you in the wrong way. The one who is trying to accuse me of something is you.

I am just saying that I don't consider modern Jews the same as biblical Jews, and I already gave you my reasons. It does not mean absolutly anything about antisemitism as you are trying to put on me ...

Even if I don't see modern Jews like I consider biblical Jews, YOU are a special case to me, cause I never heard of modern Jews, not only biblical Jews, saying those things you say; that the Bible contains myths, really? Is that a modern Jewish thing?

You said others think like you, but you didn´t prove that. You may be talking about your group of "Jews" friends in the university? Well, I don't need their names; now I understand what you mean.

Have you tell what you think about Adan and Noah to your rabbi? I guess you have a few of them in your synagogue.

Now I can sleep in peace. You may too, cause you are taking things a little too much personal without real reasons. And YES, I am learning English, but I am very proud about the point I had reached on my studies. Isn't it a pretty nice English to you?

Again: good night.

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I tend to take it personal when someone tries to tell me that I'm not a Jew.

Eli G said:

It matters when you want to be taken seriously in this issue.

I don't believe any authentic Jew consider Adan, Enoch, Noah or Moses as myths.

I wish there would be here a real Jew to tell the real thing about your position, cause I think you may be considered by other Jews like an apostate or something like that.

Good night.

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You write the above and then are shocked when the person you address it to take offense?

IndigoChild5559 said:

No, I think it is plain for your continual personal attacks (such as inferring that I'm not an authentic Jew, etc.) that it is not worth my while for me to try to dig up historical specifics. Your mind is made up that Genesis 1 is literal history and everyone who says otherwise is [insert insult].

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I thought about this. So can you answer when the holy scriptures in what is often called the "Old Testament" are true and not mythological?

YoursTrue said:

I thought about this. So can you answer when the holy scriptures in what is often called the "Old Testament" are true and not mythological?

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being mythological is not the same as being untrue. it means not historical, but myths relay important values and eternal truths.

For example, you believe in Jesus' parables, you think they are true, even though you acknowlege that they are not historical.

IndigoChild5559 said:

being mythological is not the same as being untrue. it means not historical, but myths relay important values and eternal truths.

For example, you believe in Jesus' parables, you think they are true, even though you acknowlege that they are not historical.

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That's not what I asked though. Moses wrote the first 5 books, or what most of us consider the first 5 books of the Torah, didn't he? OK, we'll leave out the last few sentences in Deuteronomy. Referring to his death. So what about the giving of the Law at Mt. Sinai? Was that a myth, too? I mean, yes -- at what point is there real history. I'm not talking about Jesus now. I'm talking about the history of the Jews before Jesus in the Torah you have up front in the synagogue. Myth? Or real history?

@IndigoChild5559 - So actually, what do you believe about the Tanakh? What's true and not true, or mythological. Anything?

YoursTrue said:

That's not what I asked though. Moses wrote the first 5 books, or what most of us consider the first 5 books of the Torah, didn't he? OK, we'll leave out the last few sentences in Deuteronomy. Referring to his death. So what about the giving of the Law at Mt. Sinai? Was that a myth, too? I mean, yes -- at what point is there real history. I'm not talking about Jesus now. I'm talking about the history of the Jews before Jesus in the Torah you have up front in the synagogue. Myth? Or real history?

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No, Moses did not write the Torah -- it has at least four (or more) different authors. However, the law does indeed exist, and so there would be an original person who wrote it up, and we can call that person Moses.

Some things are clearly legend. Other things are clearly history. And many things we cannot be sure of. It doesn't really matter. What matters is the lessons these stories teach.

YoursTrue said:

@IndigoChild5559 - So actually, what do you believe about the Tanakh? What's true and not true, or mythological. Anything?

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It would help if you would only ask the same question once. I just answered this in your other post.

Definitely an impostor.

Eli G said:

It matters when you want to be taken seriously in this issue.

I don't believe any authentic Jew consider Adan, Enoch, Noah or Moses as myths.

I wish there would be here a real Jew to tell the real thing about your position, cause I think you may be considered by other Jews like an apostate or something like that.

Good night.

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Are you aware of this? These are the 13 principles of Jewish faith detailed by Rambam. It's a good list. Notice, there is no requiement for biblical literalism on this list. Arguably, the 3rd principle prohibits it since there are times when Jehovah is described in human terms, in poetic language. But Jehovah is not corporeal. We agree on this, correct?

If Jehovah is not corporeal, then that means that there *must* be occasions when the scripture is read non-literally.

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

2. The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled unity.

3. The belief in G‑d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.

4. The belief in G‑d's eternity.

5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.

6. The belief that G‑d communicates with man through prophecy.

7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.

8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.

9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.

10. The belief in G‑d's omniscience and providence.

11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.

12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.

13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.