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Featured Jesus Prayed

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jan 25, 2023.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    if jesus were god and jesus prayed, isn't that bizarre that jesus prayed to himself, asked himself for something he could give himself as god?
     
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  2. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    On one hand, Jesus is a different person to The Father
    On the other, they are both the same being

    So, would Jesus praying to The Father be bizarre?

    No, because when Jesus was on Earth his capacities were limited by his fleshy body, by his meat suit

    He was incarnated as an earthly being, as a simple man and that's how he experienced his existence, as a simple man - even though he's God

    But yes, it would be unusual
     
  3. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    aquelarres federados en diabolismo, diabolatría, satanismo teísta, luciferismo
    I never could embrace that. Either he was God or with God. God praying to God's self is strange.
     
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  4. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    He was God but not God The Father

    shield-of-trinity-meaning.jpg

    Reality is strange :D
     
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  5. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    I talk to myself all the time.
    Seems to me that Jesus willingly took on limitations when he became human, so it only makes sense that he would pray to the omnipotent , omnipresent Father.
    He was still fully God in nature.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    in pantheism they are the same thing. the only difference is one uncreated, invisible and the other created, visible.
     
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  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    fail, doesn't agree with acts 17:28.
     
  8. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    I've looked up that scripture but am uncertain about it, I don't get it

    Please explain
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    everything created is the offspring/son of the uncreated. that is per john 1:3 too
     
  10. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    These verses, though very ancient, were probably not part of the original text of Luke. They are absent from the oldest papyrus manuscripts of Luke and from manuscripts of wide geographical distribution.
     
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  11. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    Well yes

    That would be why he's called God The Father

    He didn't just create, he is also like a parent

    But "The Son" is uncreated, as per John 1:1

    It is I think a misnomer to think of "The Son" as being a son, "The Son" is a title

    If we are God's children and Jesus carries the title "Son of God" does that mean Jesus is like our big brother????

    I think it does
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    no, do not the Spirit/God pray? Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

    is not God a Spirit? see John 4:24a

    101G
     
  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Not so fast... John 8:16-18?

    16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.
     
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  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 44:24 say the LORD all cap made all things and he was "ALONE", and "By himself". the Son made nothing, but Jesus did..... (smile).

    101G.
     
  15. setarcos

    setarcos The hopeful or the hopeless?

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    The trinitarian conception of entities such as the Roman Catholic Church simply cannot be true depictions of what God is. Not unless there is some serious equivocation done with how we define the Christian God.
    For instance...God is simple with no potential. This means God cannot change states and has no "parts". Parts here meaning distinguishable personas from the whole.
    In other words you cannot distinguish one "portion" of God from another. God's essence is whole and unique with no distinguishing essences or "parts".
    God is also immutable. From eternity to eternity God cannot change. Yet Jesus's existence as a man is temporal. Twist it however you will...and Catholics have...once you add a second person in the same essence you've changed the essence. Whatever Jesus was on earth, he couldn't have been as the son portion of God. One is eternal, the other temporal.
    God itself said in scripture that he is ineffable and incomprehensible. Yet you expect with one simple diagram of the relationship between father, son, and holy spirit it becomes perfectly clear and not incomprehensibly meaningless? Heck the only reason the trinitarian conception of God became popular was by arbitrary fiat and threat of force. Arian wasn't proven wrong, he was simply made to be wrong by force not reason.
     
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  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Can you seriously not see how incoherent such a belief actually is? o_O
     
  17. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    It makes perfect sense to me

    There is one divine being - God

    Who exists as three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial persons - The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit

    If you find it incoherent then that's your problem :D
     
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  18. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    So far, I'm with you..

    Well, which is it .. 3 or 1? o_O

    How is it my problem?
    I don't believe it.

    I don't believe that Jesus is God, and taught us.
    "Our Father, whom art in heaven"

    Jesus did not teach us to pray to him.
    Of course not .. it's just dogma which bishops voted on,
    when called to a council by an emperor.
     
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  19. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    3 in 1

    One being in three persons

    I believe it was God's will for that to happen

    And the idea would have been in wide circulation way before the bishops voted on it

    They didn't just randomly pull the notion out of their back-sides

    And if you look at the New Testament (which is divinely inspired) it clearly states that Jesus is God

    But regardless of all that:

    The Trinity is an ineffable mystery

    Something that one can accept without fully understanding.......

    I am not in the least surprised that human minds cannot comprehend the mysteries of God

    It is proud and hubristic to imagine that we can form adequate understandings of God

    But people don't need to because we have Jesus

    Here is a link to what is most likely a myth but which captures the truth of the situation:

    What a child taught St. Augustine at the seashore
     
  20. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    So do I. :)
    It doesn't make it coherent, though.

    Lots of ideas were in "wide circulation".

    Yes, I used to accept it, [but not understand it], until I knew better.
    It's quite simple really.
    The Arian belief was not proven wrong, it was just repressed by force.

    That is, that Jesus is subordinate to the Father, and is not equal to God.
    ..which is more in line with a "Jewish Jesus".
    It's all politics. Voting councils cannot determine the nature of God.
     
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