Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That depends upon who you are talking to, a Jew or a Christian.
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In accordance with the scriptures?????
- Thread starter IndigoChild5559
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And Jews have been wrong about Jesus for over 2000 years. Imo.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Not sure what you mean by hell. Furthermore, if you say you can't believe what someone wrote thousands of years ago as part of the tanach, then you can't believe what Moses and the prophets wrote either.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So if a person believes what was written about that, then he believes Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We all have our own interpretations of scriptures. Christians believe Daniel 7:13-14 is about Jesus and Baha’is believe they are about Baha’u’llah. Now I am hearing that Jews believe that that these verses are about Israel when it is obvious they are referring to a man.
I just heard on another forum that Jews also believe that Isaiah 53 refers to Israel when it is obviously about a man who will be the Messiah. Every verse says "He" or "Him." He and Him is not a nation, it is a man. There is no way Jews can make Isaiah 53 to be about a nation without defying logic and reason altogether. I do not believe that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus because Jesus did not do all of what the verses say so the Rabbis were right about that. However, Baha'u'llah did do everything the verses say so I believe the chapter is about Baha'u'llah.
Baha’is believe Daniel 7:13-14 are about Baha'u'llah who was one like the Son of man. The Son of man was Jesus. A country cannot be one like the Son of man because a country is not a man. “Him” refers to a man, not a nation. This is logic 101 stuff.
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Baha'is believe that Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.
We all have different beliefs.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Even if none of the Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible are true, that has nothing to do with God's track record. Try to think about why.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Conversely, if a person disbelieves what was written about that, then he disbelieves Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Obviously. Each one will be tested or examined by God accordingly. I feel blessed because God Almighty answered my prayers, I know He is the righteous judge and I wait for him.
ppp
Well-Known Member
If you want me to know it, then you will tell me. Otherwise, not.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Know what? Who will tell you?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
As I studied religion I was horrified to see what "religious" people did to others. That includes all sorts of atrocities, including war. It (by 'it,' I mean the world and its horrifically awful teachings) infiltrates virtually every facet of humanity. Today I was passing by some ultra-rich sections of this area of the U.S. It was a nice sunny day today where we live. And I was disgusted with the fact that there were such fabulously rich homes, people that used cleverness to subvert payment of taxes, etc. and more to become fabulously wealthy. I live in a reasonably pleasant place. When I went to school I was not religious. Didn't really believe in God although I was a member of a religion (which I later changed). I am so glad I learned what the Bible says. Remember that it was a devastating crime for the common person to read the Bible centuries ago. And -- accordingly -- time must pass by for eventualities to take place.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Not if one understands what they mean.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
But I'm glad that my interest in Jesus ended with the gospel tales, thus saving me from wasting my time on Paul's stuff.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
True......... Extreme wealth is filthy in a world where extreme poverty exists.
There was so much to hide from the people in past centuries.......... the church leaders needed ignorance to go on.....
Bree
Active Member
I totally agree with you that Isaiah is speaking of an individual and not a nation of people.
But there is a problem with the idea that the messiah can be someone from any other nation other then Israel.
The Messiah was foretold to come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons.
He was specifically to be born from the tribe of Judah.
Baha'u'llah was not and Israeli. Nor was Mohammad. So neither of them can be the messiah.
By what the Bible tells, they were not in the ten commandments that were in the stone tablets. That is why I think they are separate thing and have a different meaning. But, I don’t say that they are not good or valid.
So what do you think the other 3 books that follow Exodus are for? Voluntary practices?
God has revealed himself in stages, from Aadam to Christ, who is to say that God's revelation to Isaiah was final, complete? Surely it is Isaiah's understanding that the revelation given him referred to Israel.
cataway
Well-Known Member
Bree for the win
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Did Jesus come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons? Was Jesus born from the tribe of Judah?
I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but not the Messiah that would come in the latter days/end times.
26: THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND THE DAY OF JUDGMENT
Jesus never promised to return to earth and in fact He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)
Moreover, there is not one verse where Jesus said He was going to return to earth after He ascended. Saying that we would see the Son of man in the clouds of heaven is not Jesus saying He would return.
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Can you cite the verses that say that the Messiah was foretold to come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons and would be born from the tribe of Judah? I would like to read those in context so I can see if there is any reference to the Messiah of the latter days/end times.