I don't find the ^above^ to necessarily be accurate - www.jw.org
Jesus forewarned us that his genuine followers would be 'hated', please notice to what extent according to Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:9; Luke 21:17 and John 15:21.
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A ground-zero position when talking about the Bible
- Thread starter David Young
- Start date
Jesus forewarned us that his genuine followers would be 'hated', please notice to what extent according to Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:9; Luke 21:17 and John 15:21.
... and to me the 'Branch of David ' stands for: anointed Messiah aka Christ Jesus at Isaiah 11:1-12
firedragon
Veteran Member
Did Paul write 2 Timothy?
Not I.
The bible is an interesting, indeed remarkable, book, but there's no single theology or morality in it.
For that, you're better off with Bill and Ted's "Be excellent to each other!"
David Young
Member
From what I can tell, most people's views of the Bible would fall into two camps.
The first is the academic/secular position, the same one I take. In this, the Bible is a collection of writings and the question of what any author meant may or may not be answerable. How well an explanation stands up to rational cross-examination is the ultimate decider when it comes to explaining it.
The second is revelatory, which I refer to as occult. In this case, a supernatural information source explains what the Bible means, so the Bible's content is in some way secondary. It usually, however, starts with the assumption that the Bible has an overall message to it.
It's just that occasionally you encounter a person whose claims about their beliefs (I would suggest it is not what they actually believe) is that somehow, if you hold a Bible by the spine and shake it, out falls a 'pure' and 'Biblical' message which is somehow free of any other ideas brought to it. Would I be correct in saying that nobody here takes this third position?
The first is the academic/secular position, the same one I take. In this, the Bible is a collection of writings and the question of what any author meant may or may not be answerable. How well an explanation stands up to rational cross-examination is the ultimate decider when it comes to explaining it.
The second is revelatory, which I refer to as occult. In this case, a supernatural information source explains what the Bible means, so the Bible's content is in some way secondary. It usually, however, starts with the assumption that the Bible has an overall message to it.
It's just that occasionally you encounter a person whose claims about their beliefs (I would suggest it is not what they actually believe) is that somehow, if you hold a Bible by the spine and shake it, out falls a 'pure' and 'Biblical' message which is somehow free of any other ideas brought to it. Would I be correct in saying that nobody here takes this third position?
exchemist
Veteran Member
My information - from a JW on this forum- is that JWs discourage their children from attending university. Is this true or false?
exchemist
Veteran Member
What evidence is there for that interpretation? Or is it just a personal idea?
Revelation 19:13-15 is pretty specific: "His name is the Word of God", and "He will rule them (nations) with a rod of iron". As for who will rule the nations, that would be the "king" (Zechariah 14:16), who according to Ezekiel 37:24, would be "My servant David".
Jeremiah 33:15-16 In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: the Lord is our righteousness.’
exchemist
Veteran Member
Oh I see. That refers to Jesus of course. So we're in agreement: the "Word" refers to Christ.
All prophets, kings, and priest of Israel are "anointed". Isaiah 11:1-12 includes the recovery of "the remnant of his people", which apart from the revival of Judah and Jerusalem (Joel 3:1-2), which happened in 1948, it has not happened as for as the recovery of Ephrain, and the combining of the "stick" of Ephraim with the "stick" of Judah (Ezekiel 37). With respect to Jeremiah 16:16, the "fishermen" were sent out for the lost tribes of Israel, but at the "end of the age", the "many hunters" will be sent out, which has not happened. Isaiah 11:1-12 has yet to be fulfilled. When you nailed the law of God to the cross, your false gospel of grace/cross, you apparently nailed the prophets there as well. Yeshua was the prophet (anointed) mentioned by Moses, in who you should listen too, not nail his message to a cross, and worship the devil by means of his false prophet Paul, by virtue of the power of the beast of Rome. Keep in mind, that those with the mark of the beast, will drink from the cup of God's anger (Revelation 14:10). Just saying.
The word "Words" is the same term used for God's "Commandments". The rock (tested stone) the kingdom is built on is "justice and righteousness" (Isaiah 28:16-17), which is built around the tested stone written upon by the hand of God and set into the Arc of the Covenant. Yeshua is simply the embodiment of doing God's will, which includes keeping "My Commandments". We are not in agreement as to our perceptions. What he will be called, is only a visualization of what he represents.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I believe there is a pure, obvious message of the Bible. Thought I cannot say "The Bible" because it has various messages all over the library. But, each story is a message of some sort. I believe the problem lies in the way we tend to take it literally. The bible should not be called history and take each story literally. It should called sacred history, so the truths of the Bible can be taken with out literal reading of it. This is the Genre. Not all of it, but I would say most of it.
Hermeneutics is to understand the authors intent with the actors in play. If there is a story that person A was talking down the street, and he saw a man shivering in the cold and person A removed his own coat and gave it to that man, then went home shivering, it should not taken as an actual event. It should be rendered as the author intended to say that this person A was a munificent person, and the genre is to show it, not just say it.
Thus I believe there is such a thing as the pure, just that we are not approaching it this way.
God would.
You could argue with God if you like. Tell God that you don't think that his commandments are clear (such as the ten commandments).
When God gives a commandment to mankind, it is clear, with no ifs, ands, or buts.
Mankind adds the qualifiers and definitions. This is because mankind wants to weasel out of the truth.
Example: Most of Revelation concerns two demons (dragon and his son, the beast) from the bottomless pit of hell taking over the most powerful nation in the world (United States) and turning it into the Whore of Babylon (Revelation 17:18). It is called the Whore of Babylon because it went to war with Babylon, defeated it, and corrupted it. The US was known for sexual and financial misconduct (Clinton with Monica....George H. W. Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald), and the bible specifically mentions the Whore of Babylon dripping with expensive bobbles (pearl necklaces, like the "simple pearl necklace" that Barbara Bush was always talking about .
Revelation is very clear that one is not to change the meaning of Revelation or God will write you out of the book of life forever, and your soul will burn in the fires of the lake of fire of hell for eternity.
Pastors, today, will burn in hell for eternity for insisting that Babylon is some other, hitherto undiscovered, Babylon that no one has ever heard of, and Babylon is not the same as the city of Babylon that has been in the same place for thousands of years, and continuously occupied. These pastors are intentionally earning God's wrath by altering the meaning of Revelation.
Revelation is so important to God that God will end earth (these are the end times). Iraq was the site of the tower of Babel, and Iraq was the site of the Garden of Eden (between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers), where now crushed pottery remains, with tank tracks and bomb craters. A million Iraqis lie dead from a war tin which they had been falsely accused (bear false witness) of aiding terrorists. To motivate this war, President W. Bush made trading cards (like baseball cards) with Iraqi officials, claiming that one was the doctor of death. Such propaganda spurred the war.
Professor of law at Chapman University, John Woo, redefined the word "torture" so that no torture ever did exist the Iraqi war, nor could torture ever exist anywhere. Even Adolf Hitler's Nazi torture didn't exist under the redefined term "torture." Redefining is another way of lying.
God is quite clear about important commandments. The ten commandments are quite clear. If not....God would be more than happy to clarify them for you.
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As far as I know, there is no "the bible." There are many bibles. Even among different sects of the same religion, there are several different bibles.
However, the important sections (such as commandments from God) are crystal clear. However, God is more than willing to clarify them for you. Noah's flood was one such event.
It was argued that those books should have never been added in the first place.
Even in modern times, the pope has excluded parts of the bible, claiming that they are not true parts of the bible, but had been added in antiquity.
The books removed Luther considered not inspired, he only accepted books in original Hebrew as opposed to the Greek Septuagint.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Wow. Brand new information. There are many bibles.
What I said applies to any Bible, Gospel, proto, meta, gnostic, anything.
I find Zechariah 14:16 to be in harmony with Psalms 86:9.
Ezekiel 37:24 to be in harmony with Luke 1:32; besides John 10:16 and 1 Peter 5:4.
Jeremiah 33:15-16 to be in harmony with Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 28:26; Isaiah 53:2; Isaiah 11:1; Isaiah 11:4; Zechariah 6:12 and Revelation 22:16.
The '66' books of Bible canon have corresponding cross-reference verses and passages among the many Bible writers.
Thus, showing the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.
The apocryphal books simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the harmonious '66' Bible books.
..... and I find that ' tested stone ' proves to be Christ Jesus as the ' stone ' found at Daniel 2:34; Daniel 2:44-45.