Christian Trump Supporters

Rival said:

To be fair, the system given in the Torah is for the community to appoint judges. There were even female judges such as Deborah. Israel then demanded a king and God said they'd regret it, so it seems like a concession.

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I see that as a kind of theocracy.

As I recall, God's view of Israel having a king seems to change depending on which passage you read, in some places indicating the people would regret it and allowing it as a concession, and in other places acting like it was God's idea and plan all along.

I believe most conservative Christians who support Trump are glaringly hypocritical, and my opinion is based on the fact that many of these Christians have repeatedly dismissed his sins and immoral behavior with excuses like "his sins are between him and God," "Christians shouldn't judge him," and "I voted for a president, not a pastor." That's not how a lot of these devout Christians reacted to Bill Clinton's adultery, womanizing, and his sex scandal with Monica Lewinsky. Many of them were wailing aloud and gnashing their teeth about his sins, and lamenting how our country was going to hell in a hand basket because of the Democrats.

President Biden is the main focus of their contemptuous despise of Democrats now. They certainly love to point a pious judgmental finger at him and wail about his sins, and bemoan how he couldn't have been chosen by God because he's a liberal, and according to some devout Christian Trump supporters I've encountered online, "demon rats" are Satan's minions, and they're evil incarnate.

The irony of them insisting President Biden wasn't selected by God is that they perpetually insisted that Trump was appointed by God because God appoints our national leaders, and Christians are commanded in the Bible to submit themselves to governing authorities (Romans 13:1-7). It's as if they've all forgotten about this biblical command since President Biden was elected. It has apparently become insignificant to them since President Biden was elected, because they don't repeat it ad nauseam anymore.

Personally, I think the unwavering devout support of Trump by evangelicals clearly demonstrates that Christians aren't immune to the lure of political power, and they're more than willing to forsake their moral convictions if they're given the opportunity to gain an upper hand in the government, and have substantial political influence. My personal opinion on this has been substantiated by four prominent evangelical leaders in conservative Christianity today (mentioned below). As you can see, each one of these men tossed aside their moral convictions in favor of Trump, and each one of them lambasted Bill Clinton for his immoral behavior.

Pat Robertson.

Pat Robertson Calls for Clinton's Impeachment

Standing by Donald Trump, Pat Robertson calls lewd video ‘macho talk’

Jerry Falwell, Jr.

Watch: Jerry Falwell Jr. goes after Clinton at Republican National Convention

Evangelical Jerry Falwell Jr. defends Trump: Jesus “never told Caesar how to run Rome”

James Dobson.

He publicly condemned Bill Clinton in 1998: "Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world."

Source: What James Dobson Said in 1998 About Moral Character and the Presidency

He enthusiastically endorsed Donald Trump in 2016. And in defense of Donald Trump, he said, "I’m not under any illusions that he is an outstanding moral example. It’s a cliché but true: We are electing a commander-in-chief, not a theologian-in-chief.”

Source: I’m an evangelical. The religious right leaders who support Trump don’t speak for me.

KenS said:

As far as voting for, always the best candidate possible even if it is the best of two worst candidates.

But I thought Ben Carson was an EXCELLENT pick. They tried to smear, mal-align, and find something wrong with him...

They stopped trying!

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Well Ben Carson showed us plenty what was wrong with him. No one needed to point it out. I thought you wanted someone like Jesus.

Ben Carson's 15 most controversial quotes

ecco said:

It's all part of the Conservative Religious Propaganda. Pro-Life sounded better than Anti-Abortion.

Of course, the hypocrisy is there for all to see. Death Penalty - that's OK with the Pro-Lifers.

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And the fact that Republicans (who are largely very conservative Christians) can't come up with healthcare reform that even THEY can approve of. They certainly don't like anything Democrats propose even though it more closely resembles the moral outlook of Jesus, to love thy neighbor.

Quetzal said:

I argue that framing the discussion as 'pro life' is not accurate. There is nothing to be done about it now, but framing it that way insinuates that opponents are anti-life or want life to end. That isn't the case.

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Wasn't that the entire point of the exercise? A big part of public debate is utilizing political power and media influence to frame the issue in the exact way you want it to be framed, so your opponents look bad for advocating the opposite.

That is the origin of terms like "welfare queens", "moral majority" and, of course, "pro life" - they are attempts to re-phrase and re-frame the issue under discussion to one side's advantage.

ecco said:

It's all part of the Conservative Religious Propaganda. Pro-Life sounded better than Anti-Abortion.

Of course, the hypocrisy is there for all to see. Death Penalty - that's OK with the Pro-Lifers.

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The majority of conservatives who profess to be pro-life aren't in reality, and you'll discover this fact when you press them about abolishing the death penalty or about government funding for poor children and their single mothers. And most of them support abortion in cases of rape, incest, and risk of the mother's life, despite their insistence that abortion is murdering an unborn child. They don't seem to experience a moral dilemma about people killed in a war, or express any personal concern for undocumented immigrants, or have compassion for the immigrant children who have been separated from their parents at our southern border.

Sister Joan Chittister, a Catholic Nun, described the pro-life movement quite well when she said, "I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born, but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is" (A Catholic Nun Perfectly Explains the Major Hypocrisy of the "Pro-Life" Argument). I also recommend reading her remarks about the pro-life movement in this article: Sr. Joan Chittister's 2004 quote on 'pro-life' versus 'pro-birth' goes viral.

Kooky said:

Wasn't that the entire point of the exercise? A big part of public debate is utilizing political power and media influence to frame the issue in the exact way you want it to be framed, so your opponents look bad for advocating the opposite.

That is the origin of terms like "welfare queens", "moral majority" and, of course, "pro life" - they are attempts to re-phrase and re-frame the issue under discussion to one side's advantage.

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If republicans ran the Titanic life boat loading this way they'd say "Well since some of the crew might sneak onto the lifeboats we won't let anyone get in them."

Did republicans have a problem doing tax cuts for the wealthy even though there are many rich people who cheat already? No.

Left Coast said:

This was an instruction specifically to Moses to individually choose lieutenants for himself, who was the unelected leader of the Israelites directly appointed by God. Far cry from a democratic election.

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Yes, it is a particular example…one among many that together paint a consistent and comprehensive picture of good and bad leadership traits, irrespective of actual title (as seen in modern management and leadership theory). It’s not complicated.

ecco said:

That's the propaganda.

1. Please show where The Democratic Platform promotes abortion through 9 months. A little off-subject, but why do you think the Government should be allowed to interfere between a patient and their doctor?
2. Marriages provide certain benefits to spouses. I believe it is only fair that these privileges are extended to gay people. I suppose you would prefer that a woman cannot visit her lifelong partner in the hospital.
3. Please explain (be specific) which religious liberties have been curtailed by the Democrats.
4. Which god's name should stay in the Government of the USA? Allah? Shiva? Oh, you mean the god you believe in. That's very selfish. Especially since the founding fathers insisted that god stay out of government. Do you know why? Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the Hundred Years War. Perhaps you need a refresher on why the Pilgrims and the Puritans fled Europe. It sure wasn't because atheists kicked them out.
5. Since anyone can send their kids to schools of their choosing (if they can afford the tuition), your comment is nonsensical.
6. Care to give some examples?

Let's see if you can support your allegations.

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I'm explaining why people voted. I'm not trying to defend the position. Would you like to open a new thread?

Quetzal said:

Do you agree with that sentiment? I have my own thoughts, but you first!

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I'm not a "one issue person".

My personal thoughts... people don't have to agree with my thoughts:

I do think the value of life does have an effect on future decisions. For an example, if it is OK to remove life because of the inconvenience, then the next step (over time) is to have no problem with early euthanized application to your parents when they are inconvenient.

If not being responsible for what caused life in the first place, then you will more than likely begin to hold yourself not responsible for your life decisions.

In the long run, I think it also begins to affect marriage decision and slowly spreads to other areas.

(No empirical and verifiable evidence, just my viewpoint)

ecco said:

FETUS, Ken. It's a fetus - not a child. Do you know of any fetus that has a social security number? Do you know of any fetus that the IRS will accept as a dependent?

Just because some in your religion changed their mind about what constitutes a human being, doesn't give them or you the right to shove those definitions down the Constitution's throat.

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In my view, having a number doesn't qualify as a person. If that were the litmus, then illegal immigrants are not people.

If a 6 month fetus is born prematurely and comes out of the vaginal and "POP" it is a person, I find that scientifically and logical..... illogical

So, imv, it is a baby.

F1fan said:

Well Ben Carson showed us plenty what was wrong with him. No one needed to point it out. I thought you wanted someone like Jesus.

Ben Carson's 15 most controversial quotes

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I think you will have to do better than that. IMV

Socratic Berean said:

Yes, it is a particular example…one among many that together paint a consistent and comprehensive picture of good and bad leadership traits, irrespective of actual title (as seen in modern management and leadership theory). It’s not complicated.

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The Bible doesn't say anything about democratically electing your leaders. That's not how leaders became leaders back then. So looking to it for guidance about who to vote for in the 21st century is anachronistic at best. You're right, it's not complicated.

Socratic Berean said:

For Christian Trump supporters: please provide a scripturally-based argument for your decision to back this man (without changing the subject to denigrate any opponent), including an explanation for rejecting scripture that clearly casts this person, based on his speech and actions (past and present), as an unfit ruler.

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First, there are a lot of reasons to not trust Trump or vote for him. These are some of the Scriptural reasons I did.
Who is King Cyrus, and why did Netanyahu compare him to Trump?
He supported Israel.
““I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:2-3‬ ‭NIV‬‬
He is pro life and supports families instead of abortion.
“They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭106:38‬ ‭NIV‬‬
*He supported Christians and the Bible
*He supported freedom for individuals
*He supported personal responsibility and businesses, encouraged people to work, helped create a environment for people to excel.
“For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.””
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭NIV‬‬
There are other reasons too but I don’t agree that it’s the federal governments responsibility to provide for the poor or things like healthcare, I believe the US Constitution was given to us by God so the candidate that will do the best job upholding the Constitution and protecting the US is who I vote for. Trump was the best candidate and proved that.

KenS said:

I'm explaining why people voted. I'm not trying to defend the position. Would you like to open a new thread?

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Here you go again - ducking and dodging.

You voted for Trump.
You supported that position even after the lies about the election.
You listed a bunch of "reasons" why you and people like you voted for and support Trump.
Now you refuse to try to defend those positions. You refuse because you can't. You can't because your positions are not based on reality or facts.

You are typical of the religious fundamentalist Trump sheeple. You vote for someone who goes against biblical morality. You base your beliefs on falsehoods. Is Satan telling you the lies the lead you to go in the wrong direction?

ecco said:

Here you go again - ducking and dodging.

You voted for Trump.
You supported that position even after the lies about the election.
You listed a bunch of "reasons" why you and people like you voted for and support Trump.
Now you refuse to try to defend those positions. You refuse because you can't. You can't because your positions are not based on reality or facts.

You are typical of the religious fundamentalist Trump sheeple. You vote for someone who goes against biblical morality. You base your beliefs on falsehoods. Is Satan telling you the lies the lead you to go in the wrong direction?

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No... I actually have answered the question. LOL. In reality, your mantra is the sheeple cry of the media.

Let me answer again, not for your sake, but rather for others who may have not read my answer.

In my view, I had two options. I picked what I thought was the best of the two options (whether right or wrong will always be a debate).

It is obvious that the past is a spur in your life. I've learned that prayer really is the answer for all issues. Forgiveness is also a powerful tool. Do you pray and forgive?

KenS said:

No... I actually have answered the question. LOL. In reality, your mantra is the sheeple cry of the media.

Let me answer again, not for your sake, but rather for others who may have not read my answer.

In my view, I had two options. I picked what I thought was the best of the two options (whether right or wrong will always be a debate).

It is obvious that the past is a spur in your life. I've learned that prayer really is the answer for all issues. Forgiveness is also a powerful tool. Do you pray and forgive?

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The concept of picking the lesser of 2 evils
does not register with many folk. I've tried.
Cthulhu knows I've tried to explain.
But TDS is a powerful mind constraint.

Revoltingest said:

The concept of picking the lesser of 2 evils
does not register with many folk. I've tried.
Cthulhu knows I've tried to explain.
But TDS is a powerful mind constraint.

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It's octopus-like tentacles makes brain-nerves completely useless.

F1fan said:

Well Ben Carson showed us plenty what was wrong with him. No one needed to point it out. I thought you wanted someone like Jesus.

Ben Carson's 15 most controversial quotes

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These are my favourites:

"A lot of people who go into prison straight and when they come out, they’re gay"

"Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery"

Sounds like a top bloke.

PureX said:

I don't think there's anyone on RF that would fit your criteria. There are Christian Trump supporters, but I don't think they are assuming Trump is 'God's manservant' or anything. They just think he represents their social-economic agenda better that the democrats.

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Makes me think of Ceasar. Christians in the Bible don't think very highly at all, yet felt appointed by God.

Even as an atheist I'd prefer Trump over Biden.