Are Buddhist and Hindu Scriptures Inaccurate?

Skywalker · Jan 26, 2021

Jainarayan said:
I don’t believe that. We don’t believe in sin as you do. Sin is not an offense against God or disobedience of Him (or Her for the Shaktas among us) but rather that hurts or has negative results. It’s called paapa in Sanskrit. It’s the opposite of punya, virtue or good deeds.

But as someone else pointed out, this thread isn’t a Bible discussion. Maybe you should start one comparing the Bible to other scriptures and the validities of each.

Sin is an offense God, because behaviors that harm us come from pride.

Skywalker · Jan 26, 2021

Jainarayan said:
And I pointed out that the Upanishads do. Which one is correct? Well obviously the one I believe in.

The verse ye are gods does not support the little gods doctrine. Are Christians “little gods”? | GotQuestions.org

Are Christians “little gods”?

Question: "Are Christians 'little gods'?"

Answer: Some theological systems, such as Mormonism, teach the heresy that people can become gods in their own right. Roman Catholicism teaches what it calls the divinization of men: “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods” (The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 3, Paragraph I, I:460), although the Catholic meaning is that believers are united with Christ through the Eucharist. What has been popularly termed the “little god controversy” originated with Word of Faith pastors and teachers. The basic idea behind the controversy is that humans are actually divine, created “in the image of God” (Genesis 1:27) not only in having a soul, having dominion over the earth, or living in relationship with others, but by being of the same “spiritual class” as God Himself. Biblical theologians decry this concept as misguided at best, and heretical and cultic at worst.

The main tenet of Word of Faith is that, when we ask something of God in faith, He is compelled to fill the request. As “little gods,” our words have much power. This error is taught by some television evangelists, and its roots in Pentecostalism have made it more common in charismatic churches. The Word of Faith movement has a number of popular monikers including “name-it-claim-it,” “prosperity theology,” and “health and wealth gospel.”

The basis for the “little gods” claim is found in two Scripture passages. Psalm 82:6 reads, “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’” Jesus quotes this psalm in John 10:34, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I have said you are gods’?” However, both of these passages include explanations in the immediate context that clearly do notindicate human divinity. Psalm 82:6 is followed by a warning that “you will all die like mere men, you will fall like every other ruler” (verse 7). The reference is to mortal men who represent God’s authority in the world—kings, judges, and magistrates. (Please see our article on Psalm 82:6.)

Psalm 82 is a warning to unjust leaders who consider themselves “gods” (Psalm 82:1) yet who “know nothing,” who “walk about in darkness” (Psalm 82:5). Jesus used this passage in response to those who accused Him of blasphemy. Essentially, Jesus asked why, when human rulers were called gods, “the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world” (John 10:36) was blaspheming by claiming to be God’s Son.

Claiming divinity for Christians is insupportable, especially taking the rest of the Bible into account. God is God alone (Isaiah 37:16). We have never been God, we are not God now, and we never will be God. Jesus was fully God and fully man (a combination called the hypostatic union). If the “little gods” hypothesis is accepted, it imputes to Jesus a lesser divinity of some kind; He became a “little god” like us. John said that “the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14), but this does not indicate “a lesser divinity.” Jesus took on human flesh and blood in order to die for our sins (Hebrews 2:14), yet He retained His full position in the Godhead. God created us with a spirit, but that spirit does not hold divine qualities.

SalixIncendium · Jan 27, 2021

Jainarayan said:
We are never separated from God. Never were, never will be. Lying and being impolite have karmic consequences but karmic consequences don’t separate us from God.

Begging your pardon, but doesn't Maya separate one from God by way of ignorance of the knowledge that one is God in one's true nature?

CG Didymus · Jan 28, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
We believe Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God and as such never erred so we believe that anything He has reinterpreted or corrected is true and correct. We cannot give any other answer except what our scriptures say.

And that is the answer you should give. But, when it comes to Hinduism, Baha'u'llah doesn't have much to say. So then we're depended on those that have a kind of "infallibility" in what they say- Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi and not the UHJ.

But when a Baha'i says or writes an opinion of their interpretation about Hindu and Buddhist Scripture, they aren't infallible or unerring, and that creates problems. There is no nice or easy way to say, "We, the Baha'is have the latest truth from God. And if it contradicts the beliefs in your religion, we are right and you are wrong." And then, lots of times you have to give people in those other religions the Baha'i interpretation of the Scriptures from that other religion. And then, explain why the Baha'is interpretation is correct, and theirs is wrong. And what can you say? Because Baha'u'llah, who is infallible and unerring, said so? But, it's worse when some Baha'is give vague answers or dodge the question or comment all together.

Jainarayan · Jan 28, 2021

SalixIncendium said:
Begging your pardon, but doesn't Maya separate one from God by way of ignorance of the knowledge that one is God in one's true nature?

Yes. I'm not sure if I expressed it another way that made it sound contradictory. But you are correct, in my understanding of Advaita. which I admit is limited. I'm somewhere between Vishishtadvaita or Achintyabhedabheda, not that they're really all that different. We're never separated, the illusion of maya makes us believe we are. When people say that at moksha we're reunited with Brahman... well, we were never separated to begin with. We only think we are.

CG Didymus · Jan 28, 2021

Vinayaka said:
Straight up question ... try not to avoid it again. Yes or no? Did the Hindus get it wrong?

That is the question.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Yes or no questions are not always applicable, as truth is relative. Especially, about what is right and what is wrong.

It is seen that no one is wrong in their current frame of reference, even science agrees with this.

The thing about Truth is, is that it requires us always to consider different frames of reference.

That is the Elephant Story is it not?

So "no" Baha'is don't believe that Hindus got it wrong, because since truth is relative, Hindus are correct from their frame of reference?

Vinayaka said:
I understand, it is very difficult to say directly, "You're wrong." But in so many other words, phrases, etc, that part is obvious as the noon sun. I was just wishing for something direct.

The Hindus got it wrong.
The Buddhists got it wrong.
The Jews got it wrong.
The Christians got it wrong.

The question asked again.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I do not see it is my place in life to say that. I can determine for myself, if I have to look at things in another way.

What I have found is that God tells us what is right and what is wrong and I have not been given the position of a judge, nor a jury.

I am only but one person that can read what we will be judged against.

So even if your religion says that the other religions got things wrong, you're never going to say such a thing?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This quote says it all for me;

".. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures..."

So, since Hinduism has good things, it is from God?

CG Didymus said:
Is this a trick question? Many Gods? Reincarnation? So far Baha'is have Hinduism 0 for 2. Why is it that hard of a thing to admit. Do Baha'is think that all the other religions have gotten some things wrong? Yes, that's why their prophet, Baha'u'llah, needed to come. At least that's what they told me. Maybe I heard wrong.

I think it is obvious that Baha'is disagree with some Hindu beliefs. But most all religions have things that they disagree about. What the big deal to just say, "Yes".

Vinayaka said:
Oh I know that's what they think, as do you. But I gave up on getting straight answers a long time ago. It's another strategy ... when you can't give an answer, don't say anything at all. Surely you've noticed. I asked for an answer on this one half a dozen times. Half a dozen times too many, lol.

The problem... Baha'is not giving straight answers.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
That would be because we have answered the questions many times.

What? You've answered "Yes" or "No" to the question... "Did Hindus get it wrong" many times? What was the answer?

Let me help you... "Yes, Baha'is believe Hindus and people in all the other religions have gotten things wrong. We don't know who wrote their Scriptures. We don't know how accurate they might be. Then, different people interpreted those Scriptures differently. Things got off track. So, God sent a new messenger to straighten things out. The latest one is Baha'u'llah. What ever he said, and what ever the Baha'i Faith says, is what is the real truth. If it contradicts the beliefs of the other religions, it is the Baha'i Faith that is correct. The other religions, including Hinduism, are wrong. But Baha'is also believe, that in essence, all religions are one and all have the truth. It's just that God's truth is revealed progressively and there are slight changes and modifications that are made with each new messenger."

If that is not accurate, please feel free to again, or finely, give your answer.

CG Didymus · Jan 28, 2021

Jainarayan said:
Yet Kalki has to come long after Baha'u'llah to restore the dharma that we are losing. It doesn’t mean the previous prophets, messengers, avatars, guy-fridays, or whoever got it wrong or failed. Humans have free will.

If Kalki is still to come, then who is Baha'u'llah? They claim he is Kalki.

Oh, and I'm going to go play guitar now. Like Willy, it's always nice to get together and play some music with my friends.

Jainarayan · Jan 28, 2021

CG Didymus said:
If Kalki is still to come, then who is Baha'u'llah? They claim he is Kalki.

That's their belief. As a Vaishnava Hindu my belief is that Kalki is Vishnu. Baha'u'llah, nor anyone else for that matter, hasn't fulfilled the prophecy of Kalki's appearance per Hindu, specifically Vaishnava, writings. Like another forum member, it's beginning to wear on me to be told what my religion and deities are and are not by anyone not of my religion. Reverence and respect are one thing, co-opting is not even so bad, but reworking to the point where God Himself says "I did what!?" is quite another.

loverofhumanity · Jan 28, 2021

CG Didymus said:
And that is the answer you should give. But, when it comes to Hinduism, Baha'u'llah doesn't have much to say. So then we're depended on those that have a kind of "infallibility" in what they say- Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi and not the UHJ.

But when a Baha'i says or writes an opinion of their interpretation about Hindu and Buddhist Scripture, they aren't infallible or unerring, and that creates problems. There is no nice or easy way to say, "We, the Baha'is have the latest truth from God. And if it contradicts the beliefs in your religion, we are right and you are wrong." And then, lots of times you have to give people in those other religions the Baha'i interpretation of the Scriptures from that other religion. And then, explain why the Baha'is interpretation is correct, and theirs is wrong. And what can you say? Because Baha'u'llah, who is infallible and unerring, said so? But, it's worse when some Baha'is give vague answers or dodge the question or comment all together.

Hi CG. Have you had your covid shot yet? I’m up in arms about it because both my wife and I have numerous risk factors. Between a rock and a hard place. Damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

Regarding Sources that are reliable.

Baha’is clearly have a few Divine Sources to turn to for guidance.

Abdul-Baha

In His Will, Baha’u’llah appoints Abdul-Baha as His Successor.

When the ocean of My presence hath ebbed and the Book of My Revelation is ended, turn your faces toward Him Whom God hath purposed, Who hath branched from this Ancient Root.’ The object of this sacred verse is none other except the Most Mighty Branch (‘Abdu'l-Bahá)

Regarding Interpretation

And, again, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, we read:

“When the Mystic Dove will have winged its flight from its Sanctuary of Praise and sought its far- off goal, its hidden habitation, refer ye whatsoever ye understand not in the Book to Him Who hath branched from this mighty Stock.”

Baha’u’llah says Abdul-Baha is a most great Favor to Humanity

Render thanks unto God, O people, for His appearance; for verily He is the most great Favor unto you, the most perfect bounty upon you; and through Him every mouldering bone is quickened. Whoso turneth towards Him hath turned towards God..

Abdul-Bahá’s knowledge and wisdom according to Baha’u’llah

My glory, the ocean of My loving-kindness, the sun of My bounty, the heaven of My mercy rest upon Thee. We pray God to illumine the world through Thy knowledge and wisdom.

Shoghi Effendi

Then in the Will of Abdul-Baha regarding Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice..

The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both). Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God; whoso disputeth with him hath disputed with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God.

So the authority with which Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi has been invested is very clear, definite and powerful not iffy or minor.

And there is much Divine guidance from the sum of all these sources on the topics you mentioned but not everything. It is probably best we offer that guidance but for those topics we don’t have enough information about just to perhaps mention we don’t know.

Martin · Jan 29, 2021

Jainarayan said:
That's their belief. As a Vaishnava Hindu my belief is that Kalki is Vishnu. Baha'u'llah, nor anyone else for that matter, hasn't fulfilled the prophecy of Kalki's appearance per Hindu, specifically Vaishnava, writings. Like another forum member, it's beginning to wear on me to be told what my religion and deities are and are not by anyone not of my religion. Reverence and respect are one thing, co-opting is not even so bad, but reworking to the point where God Himself says "I did what!?" is quite another.

Yes, it's tiresome. Not to mention off-topic in this thread.

loverofhumanity · Jan 29, 2021

SalixIncendium said:
It was suggested in another thread that Hindu and Buddhist scriptures may not accurately reflect the lives of Buddha and Krishna.

I am interested in hearing specifically what scriptures and what parts of these scriptures the denizens of RF feel are flawed or inaccurate with regard to the lives of these two avatara.

I agree with @Vinayaka but would like to add that as far as moral and ethical teachings, I am unaware of any inaccuracies because in essence both religions teach to be virtuous, of good character, to be humble and kind and such things which are eternal truths and never wrong or inaccurate.

So there is no real justification to find fault with these religions.

Vinayaka · Jan 29, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
I agree with @Vinayaka but would like to add that as far as moral and ethical teachings, I am unaware of any inaccuracies because in essence both religions teach to be virtuous, of good character, to be humble and kind and such things which are eternal truths and never wrong or inaccurate.

So there is no real justification to find fault with these religions.

That's interesting, because I don't agree with you. Do you just say you agree with everyone?

loverofhumanity · Jan 29, 2021

Vinayaka said:
That's interesting, because I don't agree with you. Do you just say you agree with everyone?

Just with your comment that accuracy is difficult to determine going back far in history.

Vinayaka · Jan 29, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
Just with your comment that accuracy is difficult to determine going back far in history.

This makes no sense to me. Please re-read what you wrote, and clarify it, if you wish, as I have no idea what you're trying to say. What comment? What history? Accuracy?

loverofhumanity · Jan 29, 2021

Vinayaka said:
This makes no sense to me. Please re-read what you wrote, and clarify it, if you wish, as I have no idea what you're trying to say. What comment? What history? Accuracy?

post #2 you said

I wouldn't say inaccurate, but nor would I say accurate. Both lived so long ago that I think it's impossible to determine much accuracy at all. Heck, it's hard to determine accuracy even a couple of hundred years ago. So I'd say there is a whole lot of conjecture going on.

Vinayaka · Jan 29, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
post #2 you said

I wouldn't say inaccurate, but nor would I say accurate. Both lived so long ago that I think it's impossible to determine much accuracy at all. Heck, it's hard to determine accuracy even a couple of hundred years ago. So I'd say there is a whole lot of conjecture going on.

Thanks, I see. We do agree on the idea that we make conjectures, and nobody knows for sure. My conjecture is rather different that yours, in that I don't believe Krishna existed as a real person and God at the same time, and perhaps not even a s a real person, whom the myth was based on, as I'm not a Vaishnavite, and you figure he was a manifestation of God. I'm not sure what you think of Buddha. I haven't studied it, but most certainly figure the Buddha was most likely a real person, certainly more likely than with Krishna.

Of course the fundamental question I've asked of you many times remains. I don't expect it to ever be answered, as that's just not the way Baha'is do things, which I've come to accept.

loverofhumanity · Jan 29, 2021

Vinayaka said:
Thanks, I see. We do agree on the idea that we make conjectures, and nobody knows for sure. My conjecture is rather different that yours, in that I don't believe Krishna existed as a real person and God at the same time, and perhaps not even a s a real person, whom the myth was based on, as I'm not a Vaishnavite, and you figure he was a manifestation of God. I'm not sure what you think of Buddha. I haven't studied it, but most certainly figure the Buddha was most likely a real person, certainly more likely than with Krishna.

Of course the fundamental question I've asked of you many times remains. I don't expect it to ever be answered, as that's just not the way Baha'is do things, which I've come to accept.

Yes Baha’is believe Buddha was a real person and the Founder of Buddhism. Is that the question you are referring to?

Vinayaka · Jan 29, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
Yes Baha’is believe Buddha was a real person and the Founder of Buddhism. Is that the question you are referring to?

The question is ... (for at least the 7th time) Do the Baha'is believe that the Hindus got it wrong? Yes or no? (I still don't expect it to be answered. Didymus explained it well. (post 246)

TransmutingSoul · Jan 29, 2021

Vinayaka said:
The question is ... (for at least the 7th time) Do the Baha'is believe that the Hindus got it wrong? Yes or no? (I still don't expect it to be answered. Didymus explained it well. (post 246)

Did you forget about this thread, where you were the top poster with over 3600 replies.

How are these Great Beings explained?

I wonder how many times we covered that question there?

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Jan 29, 2021

loverofhumanity said:
Yes Baha’is believe Buddha was a real person and the Founder of Buddhism. Is that the question you are referring to?

I think this has been explained so many times, that the question continues to be rehashed, as it is seen by some posters as an unreconcilable frame of reference.

The answer is not just a Yes or No, as it requires clarification.

A yes or no is what a lawyer wants to hear to firm up their case, it is not an answer you ask for, if you are looking for a more complete truth.

Regards Tony

Are Buddhist and Hindu Scriptures Inaccurate?

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