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How do you know animals have no such capacity? I know animals are capable of reflecting God's light. Animals are much more like us than we think. Animals is also God's creations. God love animals. Of course can animals travel trough the world's of God
What does bahá'u lláh say about animals?Animals do reflect the Attributes of God in the state they are created. You are correct.
They do not have the power to know and Love God, to work outside the laws of nature, which the animal spirit is bound to. As human we can rise above our animal spirit.
Abdul'baha explains this topic in the 5 levels of spirit.
It is also explained how the highest attribute of the vegetable and animal spirit is sacrafice to a higher level.
Thus I see a pet that shows Love and Loyalty to an owner has reached it highest attribute and finds the ultimate purpose. As such I see it lives on in that purpose.
Regards Tony
There are a lot of different beliefs concerning life after death for humans and animals. The truth is that there is no life after death taught in either Jewish or Christian scripture. The ancient Jews believed in a future physical resurrection when the Messiah brought his Kingdom rule to this earth.....but that got mangled as influences from outside Judaism infiltrated Jewish thinking. Sheol was originally just the grave, (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) but men in later times turned it into some kind of sinister underworld of the dead.
Solomon wrote...."for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust." (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)
Understanding the difference between "soul" and "spirit" in the original languages of the Bible, allows us to have a clearer picture.
All living breathing creatures are called "souls" in the Bible, both man and animal. This word never refers to a disembodied spirit. It is the creature itself whilst it lives and breathes.
The word "spirit" refers to the breath than animates all breathing creatures, as well as "spirit" beings (angels) and the "spirit" in humans and animals that gives them personality traits....and God's holy spirit. It is a word with many meanings, but all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.
When you understand that the notion of an invisible conscious part of man that separates from the body at death was never taught by God or Christ in any part of scripture, you then understand that this notion has no place in our beliefs. The soul is us. Adam was not "given" a soul but "became" one when God started him breathing.
The spirit is what animates us, and when we breathe our last breath, the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4 Psalm 146:4)
Animals and man have the same destination....both return to the dust. Man however is promised a resurrection (a restoration of life here on earth where God put us in the first place) but animals are given no such promise.
Sentimentality is not a substitute for the truth.....and the truth is, God never designed animals to live forever....but he did purpose for humans to keep living so as to be constant caretakers of his earth, given his qualities and attributes, so as to fulfill that assignment as God willed.
Most Baha'is 'believe' they know because of what Abdu'l-Baha wrote, as if he was a scientist, and as if he was infallible. It is a Baha'i belief that only Manifestations of God are infallible but some Bahais elevate Abdu'l-Baha to a level of infallibility and they will find something the UHJ said in order to justify that. Some Baha'is are no different than some Christians who cherry pick scriptures to try to prove they are right.How do you know animals have no such capacity?
That is an excellent question. I don't know that Baha'u'llah ever said anything about animals.What does bahá'u lláh say about animals?
I agree with you. What Bahá'u lláh wrote is more important and correct than what Abdu'l-Baha wrote. I'm not Baha'i but since Baha'u llah is a manifestation of God according to Baha'i faith then of course what he writed is most correctMost Baha'is 'believe' they know because of what Abdu'l-Baha wrote, as if he was a scientist, and as if he was infallible. It is a Baha'i belief that only Manifestations of God are infallible but some Bahais elevate Abdu'l-Baha to a level of infallibility and they will find something the UHJ said in order to justify that. Some Baha'is are no different than some Christians who cherry pick scriptures to try to prove they are right.
I think that is why. I will say no more.No problem.
I thought that most Bahais are indeed prejudiced against Spiritualism and that could be why.
That is how I see it but not all Baha'is see it that way. Some, probably most, Baha'is believe that what Abdu'l-Baha said carries as much authority as what Baha'u'llah wrote. They will tell you that is because of the Covenant but they will be hard pressed to find anything in there where Baha'u'llah gave Abdu'l-Baha the authority to change or add to anything Baha'u'llah wrote. But that is what happened. I have my personal opinion as to why that happened but I won't share it here.I agree with you. What Bahá'u lláh wrote is more important and correct than what Abdu'l-Baha wrote. I'm not Baha'i but since Baha'u llah is a manifestation of God according to Baha'i faith then of course what he writed is most correct
God love animals also. Animals is also God's child. I believe you are wrong about what the bible say. Many christians do think the bible say animals also get a afterlife.
From a christian webside:
Child Wonders If Animals Go to Heaven - Focus on the Family
"But, from our point of view, animals might be there too! Romans 8:18-27 tells us that Christ came to earth to redeem all of creation, not just human beings. Did you know that some of the prophets in the Bible had visions of the peaceful kingdom of God, and their visions included different kinds of animals?
Isaiah 11:6, 7 gives us a beautiful description: “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat. The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.”
Then show me some scriptures that say that we will be raised from the dead and live forever on earth.Yes. There are some wonderful indications of humans and animals enjoying God’s creation.....but they are not visions of heaven, they are foregleams of life on earth in the future.
I prefer to get my information from the scriptures rather than the countless confusing statements from erroneous interpretations that support the doctrine of an immortal soul that leaves the body to live somewhere else. That was never part of God's original purpose for humans. He put us here for a reason.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.If it’s one thing that annoys me more than anything, it’s taking verses out of context to support an inaccurate assumption. One glaringly inaccurate assumption is that heaven is somehow our final destination...it never was....and it never will be.
You are interpreting these verses to mean what you want to believe and that is called confirmation bias. I interpret these verses to mean something completely different and I am sure Christians interpret them differently than you do. You want to be chosen so you believe you are chosen, it is as simple as that.There is so much in this passage, that many professed “Christians” misunderstand and lose its meaning. When Paul speaks of “waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God“ most have no understanding of who it is that Paul is speaking about.
These “sons of God” are a specific group who have been chosen by God for rulership positions in God’s kingdom, (Revelation 20:6) who will rule from heaven over earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4) These are the ones whom God "adopts as sons".
I consider that a fantasy, a belief that came about from misinterpreting and misunderstanding key scriptures, but I have no expectation of talking you or other JWs out of your beliefs. There are so many problems with such a belief, how it could have never worked for God to design us to be immortal physical bodies living on earth forever, but there is no point listing those problems because you believe what you believe and you will continue to believe it till you die and cross over to the spiritual world (heaven). I cannot say what will happen after that but it seems to me you will be very confused when you have a spiritual body, and you will also be sorely disappointed when you realize there is nothing ‘physical’ in the spiritual world.God never designed humans to go to heaven...he made us mortal beings of flesh to dwell on this planet in peaceful paradise conditions forever, providing all that was necessary for a wonderful life here, never to grow old, get sick, or die.
You have absolutely nothing to back up your beliefs that God’s original purpose for humans was for everyone to rise from the dead and live on earth forever and this belief is not supported by the Bible in its totality. It is solely based upon cherry picking scriptures and assumptions you have made about what they mean.Animals are very much a part of that enjoyment, as the scripture in Isaiah shows us.....
Isaiah 11:6, 7 gives us a beautiful description: “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat. The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.”
This is a description of life on earth, not heaven. These are called “restoration” prophesies. That is a restoration of all that we lost due to Adam’ disobedience. God never abandoned his first purpose because it was wonderful and with a detour to rectify an abuse of free will, it will be accomplished, just as God intended. (Isaiah 55:11)
I believe that the Garden of Eden was only an allegory, and many liberal Christians agree with me. There was never any such place as the Garden of Eden, nor were there an Adam and Eve who disobeyed God. This just reminded me of what I read in an article about the bodily resurrection of Jesus.We are designed to live in paradise, not heaven. The first paradise was right here on earth....and God generously provided all that humans and every other creature would need to enjoy a wonderful life here, but rebellion (an abuse of free will) caused God to take an important detour so that his children could experience the consequences of their disobedience and learn from them. All he has ever asked of his intelligent creation is obedience. We would never have had to live this life if our first parents had simply obeyed their Creator.
All Christians believe that they have the Truth but the problem is that they do not agree on what that Truth is, yet all of them are reading the same Bible. Logically speaking, that means that some or all of the Christians are wrong. Maybe some Christians are right, but there is no reason to believe they are right just because they cite a bunch of verses and claim to know what they mean. All Christians make such claims and since they disagree they cannot all be right.There is a much bigger picture than most people will allow themselves to see. This is why the truth is like buried treasure....it takes effort to bring it to the surface, but once you have it in broad daylight, it is much easier to see the value of your efforts.
What does bahá'u lláh say about animals?
I agree with you. What Bahá'u lláh wrote is more important and correct than what Abdu'l-Baha wrote. I'm not Baha'i but since Baha'u llah is a manifestation of God according to Baha'i faith then of course what he writed is most correct
How do you know animals have no such capacity? I know animals are capable of reflecting God's light. Animals are much more like us than we think. Animals is also God's creations. God love animals. Of course can animals travel trough the world's of God
Although the topic is about animals and the spirit world, the Bahá’í stance on animals is not mentioned. I think this is important to know for all animal lovers.
"It is not only their fellow human beings that the beloved of God must treat with mercy and compassion, rather must they show forth the utmost loving-kindness toevery living creature. For in all physical respects, and where the animal spirit is concerned, the selfsame feelings are shared by animal and man ... The feelings are one and the same, whether ye inflict pain on man or on beast. There is no difference here whatever. And indeed ye do worse to harm an animal, for man hath a language, he can lodge a complaint, he can cry out and moan; if injured he can have recourse to the authorities and these will protect him from his aggressor. But the hapless beast is mute, able neither to express its hurt nor take its case to the authorities ... Therefore it is essential that ye show forth the utmost consideration to the animal, and that ye be even kinder to him than to your fellow man. Train your children from their earliest days to be infinitely tender and loving to animals. If an animal be sick, let them try to heal it, if it be hungry, let them feed it, if thirsty, let them quench its thirst, if weary, let them see that it rests." (Selection from the Writings of Abdul-Baha)
Then show me some scriptures that say that we will be raised from the dead and live forever on earth.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.
What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.
1 Corinthians 15:35-58 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
You are interpreting these verses to mean what you want to believe and that is called confirmation bias. I interpret these verses to mean something completely different and I am sure Christians interpret them differently than you do. You want to be chosen so you believe you are chosen, it is as simple as that.
I consider that a fantasy, a belief that came about from misinterpreting and misunderstanding key scriptures, but I have no expectation of talking you or other JWs out of your beliefs. There are so many problems with such a belief, how it could have never worked for God to design us to be immortal physical bodies living on earth forever, but there is no point listing those problems because you believe what you believe and you will continue to believe it till you die and cross over to the spiritual world (heaven). I cannot say what will happen after that but it seems to me you will be very confused when you have a spiritual body, and you will also be sorely disappointed when you realize there is nothing ‘physical’ in the spiritual world.
As Paul so carefully explained you will have a body upon resurrection but that body will not be physical; it will be spiritual, because it is designed to live forever in a spiritual world (heaven), not designed to live on this earth. This is all according to Paul, as I explained to Skywalker when I interpreted the verses 1 Corinthians 15:35-58. #515 Trailblazer
You have absolutely nothing to back up your beliefs that God’s original purpose for humans was for everyone to rise from the dead and live on earth forever and this belief is not supported by the Bible in its totality. It is solely based upon cherry picking scriptures and assumptions you have made about what they mean.
You are absolutely correct that this is a description of life on earth, not life in heaven, because it is about what life will be like on earth when the Kingdom of God is established on earth.
Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
Baha’is do not believe these verses are about animals, they are allegorical scriptures used to describe what will happen to humans. We know they are not about animals because Isaiah 11:9 says “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.” And animals cannot have knowledge of the Lord.