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Arguments for or against god
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
We Never Know
No Slack
leroy
Well-Known Member
That analogy is inappropriate.
A correct analogy would be:
You have to roll a dice 1,000,000,000,000,000 times
If you get "6" every single time you will live, but if you get something else rather than 6 atleast once you will die
Then pretend that you got 6 every time and lived.... Wouldn't you consider the possiblity of the intervention of an inteligent being that somehow prevented you from getting any number other that 6?
The point is that statistically speaking a universe that started in a stated of low entropy is less likely than a universe with high entropy
So why do we live in a universe that started in a state of low entropy.?
If you observe a series of 100000000 dice all facing "6" (low entropy) wouldnt you conclude that an inteligent designer organice those dice in such a pattern? If not what explanation would you provide and why is that explanation better than design?
A convenient explanation for almost anything we might propose and for which we know there is zero evidence - unless we are the ones to choose the evidence. Which is exactly what many religions seem to do. Or, they just make stuff up.
Tsk, tsk, childishness is not opaque - and I'm an expert!
There are no arguments against the highest.
Psalm 53:1
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God!”
There are as many arguments for as for no gods or God, such that is mostly up to us as to whether we accept or even see some useful purpose in such propositions. I don't see any, and see far more reasons not to go this route. I have never experienced anything that might make me believe in a God, but that might be because I am either not susceptible to such feelings, or I have barriers in place to avoid this, or for any numerous other reasons. But, as far as I can tell, no friends of mine have ever felt this either, most are agnostic or atheists, and I can't see any reason why any of these would be excluded from such even if I can for myself. As others have pointed out, humans are just built to fabricate all sorts of nonsense to explain various phenomena from time immemorial - and no doubt will continue doing so.
For me, there are no essential reasons to believe either way but the evidence stacks up against God rather than for God.
For me, there are no essential reasons to believe either way but the evidence stacks up against God rather than for God.
It is only as bold as those saying 'god exists', only my evidence is somewhat more convincing, to me at least.
Nope god is a guess, an 'i dont know so god dun it'. And not a theory by any means, a theory can be tested and verified. Not even a hypothesis which is a supposition based limited evidence.
As for how everything began (universe), i know of 28 hypothesis (including 2 possibilities of a universe from nothing), all can be shown to be possible mathematically or by extrapolation from conditions in our universe at this time. None say a god did it.
usfan
Well-Known Member
Here's my take:
1. This is a discussion forum. 'God vs no God!', is a topic for discussion.
2. The debate over the nature of the universe is ongoing.. lasting longer than any other debate in the annals of human history.
3. Opinions and beliefs are always matters of debate.. mathematical formulas are not as provocative.
4. Interest in philosophical topics about the Big Questions never wanes.. that has remained constant for millennia.
5. Topics about deeper philosophical issues have interest to deeper, inquiring minds. Shallow people talk about people and things.
6. Some are perhaps insecure in their beliefs, and want/need to bash other's beliefs to compensate.
7. Some people will argue about anything.
8. Some people may actually be seeking Truth, and hope to find it in an internet forum.
9. Some people are proselytizing propagandists, with no interest in reasoning or discussion, just promoting their beliefs.
10. The Official State Religion of Progressivism may ban debates or open discussions about philosophical beliefs some day, mandating homogeneity of belief. Some may enjoy the last gasp of freedom of conscience and expression, before it ends.
..maybe there are more reasons why people enjoy debating these cosmic mysteries. This probably covers most.
1. This is a discussion forum. 'God vs no God!', is a topic for discussion.
2. The debate over the nature of the universe is ongoing.. lasting longer than any other debate in the annals of human history.
3. Opinions and beliefs are always matters of debate.. mathematical formulas are not as provocative.
4. Interest in philosophical topics about the Big Questions never wanes.. that has remained constant for millennia.
5. Topics about deeper philosophical issues have interest to deeper, inquiring minds. Shallow people talk about people and things.
6. Some are perhaps insecure in their beliefs, and want/need to bash other's beliefs to compensate.
7. Some people will argue about anything.
8. Some people may actually be seeking Truth, and hope to find it in an internet forum.
9. Some people are proselytizing propagandists, with no interest in reasoning or discussion, just promoting their beliefs.
10. The Official State Religion of Progressivism may ban debates or open discussions about philosophical beliefs some day, mandating homogeneity of belief. Some may enjoy the last gasp of freedom of conscience and expression, before it ends.
..maybe there are more reasons why people enjoy debating these cosmic mysteries. This probably covers most.
leroy
Well-Known Member
What is that Evidene against God,? and why do you think the evidence for God that is typically provided (Kalam cosmological argument, fine tuning argument, moral argument, evidence for the resurrection etc.) Is not sufficient enough to out the balance on the theist side?
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Curious George
Veteran Member
You do realize that any specific combination and order of numbers is equally probable.
No because that is not what has happened. Life evolved here because the conditions were present for life to evolve were here. They could have been elsewhere, other conditions might sustain different life, and finally no life would have worked out to the same probability. When you arbitrarily pick one thing and then ask what are the chances of this exact thing happening you are inevitably dealing with an infinitesimally small probability. However once that thing occurs the probability of it having occurred is 100%.
No that is completely untrue. Any universe with our physics would need to start in a lower state of entropy than that same universe would be in later.
Because entropy increases. Therefore any universe will start in a lower state of entropy than it will be later.
No. Every pattern is equally likely/unlikely.
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
How does something occur out of nothing? What is the mechanism behind it? And can that be repeated in an experiment?
Here is one paper on quantum vacuum bubbles
Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing
Note the full paper can be downloaded from the menu at the top right f the page
And here is an article considering energy density
Ask Ethan: Can We Really Get A Universe From Nothing?
Both are a bit much to copy and paste here, please feel free to read them at your leisure.
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
Thanks. Will look through them.
I did a quick edit on the first one. The link is only a synopsis. The full article needs downloading
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
Cool. Thanks.
I am reading through the stuff, and it is fascinating, but it still seems as valid to me as a God creating everything, since we do know that intelligences construct things everyday.
Although the idea of mindless matter or a God coming from nothing is the real unanswerable part.
(By the way I just opened the full paper and understand none of the equations. )
Neutral Name
Active Member
Me too, thanks for the honesty.
We dont dont construct things by blowing them up, thats deconstruction. Following the known history if the universe from superheated plasma one can see how it formed into the place we know and love.
I too am lost on the maths.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Maybe people unconsciously seek the reactions of other people.