shmogie
Well-Known Member
So, then reject it, your choice, your consequences if you choose unwisely.
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What Is The Purpose Of Baptism?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
sooda
Veteran Member
First Person: Did the Kingdoms of Saul, David and Solomon ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/did-the...
Jan 18, 2019 · From the September/October 2017 Biblical Archaeology Review. As to Solomon’s Temple as described in the Bible, its plan is known in temple architecture of the Levant since the second millennium B.C.E. and continues into the Iron Age. Although archaeology cannot determine whether Solomon was the builder of the Temple,...
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Really, ya think ? a system of theological thought arose after the Apostles. It added to and perverted the teachings of the Apostles.
I can trace my lineage as a denomination of one to the Apostles as well.
Back through Protestant teachers, to Luther to the Bible and the words of the Apostles themselves, to Jesus Christ.
My denomination has no alleged infallible men who produced what the Apostles never intended.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Ok, thank you.
Cooky
Veteran Member
There's no infallable men in Catholicism either, which is a common misconception.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Matthew 3:9 John 8:39 Lineage does not legitimize anyone's claim, doing as they did legitimizes the claim.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
What is it when the pope speaks ex cathedra ?
Cooky
Veteran Member
There's debate, even within Catholic circles, on the differences between private and public revelation, and with the "Keys", as to "binding and loosening" -who is actually binding and loosening.
Matthew 16:19
...We do believe that the Holy Spirit plays an active role in the Sacraments of the Church, and that Jesus Christ is the head and founder of the Catholic Church.
Some may say it is God Himself speaking through the pope when he speaks Ex-Cathedra.
Cooky
Veteran Member
So while even, one Catholic might argue that the Keys are only applicable in Canon Law, and another argues that they apply in doctrines and teachings, through God, there are still other mysteries in the Church. Such as why we take communion, and what purpose it truly serves. But we do it without even knowing why, because we believe Jesus commanded it of us, and that is sufficient in itself.
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e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Do you have any scriptural evidence the Christ baptism set the stage for all Christian baptism? I've never read, or heard of any Scripture where it is expressed that anyone's baptism was connected back to Jesus's baptism.
Right on!
Do you have any scriptural or historical evidence that this baptism was a public display so that all would know that one was a Christian, that it was a symbolic death, burial of the old self? Neither 1 Peter 3:21, nor any passage that I've ever seen has ever purposed baptism as a display to announce one's Christianity. Nor have I ever seen a scripture that described the purpose of baptism as symbolism for the death and burial of the old self. I've seen a bunch of people try to insert those terms themselves into certain passages to make it sound like it's the passages that are saying that, but I've never seen any passage say these things for itself.
As far as all concrete evidence points to, no one in the first century ever got baptized as a public display so that all would know that one was a Christian, nor as symbolism for the death and burial of the old self. I doubt that anyone in the New Testament church ever heard of these things.
Right on!
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shmogie
Well-Known Member
There is only one Church, the Body of Christ, itś members are all those throughout the generations who are, or were, saved by Grace, by faith alone.
Denominations mean nothing to God.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Sounds like you had bad teachers to begin with. How much studying in the Bible did you do on the matter?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
According to whom?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Both are fiction.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
1 Samuel 15:13-14,19-20,22 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The Lord bless you! I have carried out the Lord's instructions.” [14] But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?” [19] Why did you not obey the Lord? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the Lord?” [20] “But I did obey the Lord,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the Lord assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king. [22] But Samuel replied: “Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
Actually, it's better to follow what God says about baptism, and not just do our own thing, like Saul did.
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Cooky
Veteran Member
What is your understanding of what God says in regards to baptism?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
From the Biblical standpoint,
The purpose of baptism in water in Jesus's name, which began after His resurrection, is
-Acts 2:38 ...and be baptized for the remission (forgiveness) of your sins...
-Acts 22:16 ...arise, and be baptized and wash away thy sins, ...
Self explanatory.
-Romans 6:2,5-7 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? [5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [7] for he who has died is freed from sin.
We die, our old man is crucified, we are freed from sin.
-Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
We are clothed with Christ.
-1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
We are saved, making an appeal to God for a good conscious. These two are in unison, not opposing each other.
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Among others
I read what you said about protestants taking the Bible too far, to the hills, and such.
Although I do not identify as protestant, this is the Biblical standpoint, and it is what I subscribe to.
Cooky
Veteran Member
That copy and paste doesn't really explain "your understanding" of it though. I really don't want to take part in scriptural back and forths, as the cherry picking of verses out of context is something I can't take part in.
...Acts 2 is not even about baptism. I stopped there.
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shmogie
Well-Known Member
According to the Bible.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
It's not even that much. There's no verbage in the Word of God itself that ever describes baptism's purpose as either a public declaration of faith, or as a symbolic representation of the cleansing of sin, or as a symbolic representation of the baptized one entering death, and coming out of the grave. All such terminology of declaration and representation, is commentator driven nothing more. All those times when people say "It's not exactly written that way", or "It doesn't use those exact words, but..." is proof that the Bible doesn't say those things, and that it's the commentators who are saying this "on behalf of" the Bible. THE BIBLE does not speak of a public declaration purpose for baptism. THE BIBLE does not speak of a "symbolizing" purpose for baptism.
I agree with you about infant baptism though.
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