Why is the literalness of the Bible so important?

URAVIP2ME · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Because Jesus was supposed to have redeemed us and removed the “original sin”. That should have reset the clock. All he said about what became Revelation is that he would return in glory to judge.

I agree 'return in glory to judge' and the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 will have a favorable judgement. The favorable outcome for them will be that they will be 'saved/delivered/rescued' through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Y

And what is that right view? Mine? Yours? And why? How does anyone know?

I think the only right view is that of the Creator alone. I do believe that the Bible and Jesus Christ is the expressed revelation of this view from Him to humanity. But I don't expect or want you or anyone to ever believe that because I do, your friends do, parents, pastors or anyone else does. I definitely hope not, anyway. I think the God who created heaven and earth is there, ready and waiting. to let anyone know who truly seeks to know.

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Because Jesus was supposed to have redeemed us and removed the “original sin”. That should have reset the clock. All he said about what became Revelation is that he would return in glory to judge.

What do you mean by "reset the clock"?

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

sooda said:
Wow.. you hit that nail on the head.

Jainarayan said: ↑

Because Jesus was supposed to have redeemed us and removed the “original sin”. That should have reset the clock. All he said about what became Revelation is that he would return in glory to judge.

Why do you say Jainarayan "hit the nail on the head"?

Sky Rivers · Mar 23, 2019

Time isn’t reset; it goes on as usual. The earth (not the planet) will be destroyed and a new earth will be created.

Earth (the realm) isn’t going to be destroyed. Neither will a new planet replace earth. God called creation good and it was so. With the flood, God submerged “earth” (all the dry land) I hope that was useful, not that you asked for the details.

Jainarayan said:
Because Jesus was supposed to have redeemed us and removed the “original sin”. That should have reset the clock. All he said about what became Revelation is that he would return in glory to judge.

URAVIP2ME · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
The same way we are/aren’t.
As I said, what my former priest taught is that how we’re here is of less importance than why... to serve God and glorify him. Whether Adam and Eve were real or allegorical is secondary. People spend so much time trying to prove the literalness of the Bible and presenting proof of God’s existence the proving becomes an end itself.

How does believing something out of harmony with Scripture serves and glorifies God __________
Jesus believed that Scripture is ' religious truth ' according to Jesus' recorded words at John 17:17.
Thus, Jesus glorified his God by basing his teachings on Scripture.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written..." written in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus never said that 1 Chronicles ( Jewish records ) were wrong.
So, I wonder how the priest concluded how we are here is less important then why.

Jainarayan · Mar 23, 2019

URAVIP2ME said:
So, I wonder how the priest concluded how we are here is less important then why.

A M.Div. degree in theology.

Jainarayan · Mar 23, 2019

Sky Rivers said:
Time isn’t reset; it goes on as usual. The earth (not the planet) will be destroyed and a new earth will be created.

Earth (the realm) isn’t going to be destroyed. Neither will a new planet replace earth. God called creation good and it was so. With the flood, God submerged “earth” (all the dry land) I hope that was useful, not that you asked for the details.

That doesn’t address my points at all.

Jainarayan · Mar 23, 2019

InChrist said:
What do you mean by "reset the clock"?

Return mankind to its state before the “fall”.

sealchan · Mar 23, 2019

InChrist said:
Okay, I basically understand what you are saying. Yet, from my perspective, if ultimately there is truth and precisely Absolute Truth, who is a personal Being/ Creator, then of necessity I think it is logical and stands to reason that this Being may only adequately be known with the right view or understanding and knowing His actual, legitimate name and true identity.

Well, not if the nature of God the creator is beyond human understanding...which makes sense unless you believe that human beings could become gods themselves.

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

sealchan said:
Well, not if the nature of God the creator is beyond human understanding...which makes sense unless you believe that human beings could become gods themselves.

I would conclude that an infinite Creator God IS indeed way beyond the ability of a finite human being to comprehend.. therefore the need for such a Being to reach down to human level and provide revelation about Himself so we can have real understanding.

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Return mankind to its state before the “fall”.

Thanks for clarifying. Does the Bible say anywhere that God intended mankind or the earth to be completely restored to the state before the fall immediately after the cross and resurrection?

Jainarayan · Mar 23, 2019

InChrist said:
Thanks for clarifying. Does the Bible say anywhere that God intended mankind or the earth to be completely restored to the state before the fall immediately after the cross and resurrection?

Wasn’t that the purpose of the redemption? Why would he let mankind continue to live in suffering and pain? Where’s the proof that mankind is even redeemed or saved? Has anyone ever returned to verify it?

MJFlores · Mar 23, 2019

sealchan said:
I can find "rest for our souls" in the Bible without having to believe it is historically factual. Who are you to stand between me and God and deny this?

Historically factual?

I have many posts about this in a thread
"Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible"

Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

and you are the second person who evaded why we have the nation of Israel .
if the Bible is fictitious. The fictional book you call the Bible probably mentions "Israel" or "Israelite" at least 2,000 times.

Can't beat the real thing, right?

InChrist · Mar 23, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Wasn’t that the purpose of the redemption? Why would he let mankind continue to live in suffering and pain? Where’s the proof that mankind is even redeemed or saved? Has anyone ever returned to verify it?

Yes, redemption was/is the purpose, but if you have read the Bible at all I'm sure you've seen that redemption is a process that includes what the scriptures call sanctification as believers are transformed throughout their lives to become more like Christ. Besides that, there are many place which indicate that complete restoration does not occur until God's plan with the nations is fulfilled, the end days, the first resurrection of the saints, return of Christ to reign from Jerusalem, etc. Jesus entered into this world and endured suffering and pain we experience and even worse. I believe things continue as they do for now because God is patiently waiting for more people to have the opportunity for redemption...

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 1 Peter 3:8-9

No, no one has come back to verify, except Jesus. It may not be enough for you but that along with the change I've seen in my life and the lives of others because of Jesus is reasonable proof for me.

Dawnofhope · Mar 24, 2019

Jainarayan said:
Good points, however, about the only thing fairly certain in the Hindu mythos is that the Mahābhārata War was historical, at the very least as a local tribal conflict. Yet Hinduism has survived for over 5,000 years based on what are probably purely fanciful stories.

That an eight-armed woman riding a tiger while kicking demon butt probably does not physically exist doesn’t shake my faith in the least. My faith is in what she represents... powers greater than me, a loving mother who, along with her blue four-armed brother (Vishnu and Durga are brother and sister) protects her children from bullies, and who keeps universal evil at bay. Ridiculous and allegorical stories? IMO of course. Great truths and morals to live by? Absolutely.

If there was no Mahābhārata War, no Krishna, no Arjuna, we still come away with the Bhagavad Gita which to millions, hundreds of millions, of Hindus is the equivalent of the Sermon on the Mount, something people base their lives on. And if not the Bhagavad Gita (not all Hindus know it), then we have the Puranas, Agamas, Tamil scriptures and literature.

So, here we have billions of people, who for thousands of years have been living their lives according to principles laid down in allegories. I don’t think Christianity, Judaism or Islam would be any less true or worthy as faiths if they were based purely on allegory.

So when it comes right down to it I’m not interested in debunking or denigrating the stories, even I like them, but my basic question is why fight so hard to prove they’re historical? Why not simply accept, enjoy and live by them without attaching historicity to them? And to force it on others... fighting to get creationism taught in schools as historical and scientific fact, when it’s just religious belief. “He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:20 As it was explained to me, the mountain is not Mt. Everest, but the mountains that are obstacles to faith.

Obviously I can't answer that question for Christians, as like you I moved beyond the Christian Church many years ago. However Christianity remains a foundation for my belief in God. There is a light within Christianity that is undeniable, but I see the light in Hinduism, Buddhism and my own faith. I'm good with mythology, allergory, metaphor, symbolism and all those other words we use when talking about the Christian narrative. However, I need more than that. If Christ was a mythical person who never existed it changes everything. Same deal with Buddha and Krishna. There needs to be some historicity in there for 'me'. I don't need to have the same historicity as the Christians but I do need a tangible foundation for my 'belief'.

Belief is important because it can contribute to us being better people and reaching across the divide to those who are different. I'm good with diversity and acknowledge what works for one person may not for another. We all need to read the reality of our own lifes. Like you I'm good to let people be.

sealchan · Mar 24, 2019

InChrist said:
I would conclude that an infinite Creator God IS indeed way beyond the ability of a finite human being to comprehend.. therefore the need for such a Being to reach down to human level and provide revelation about Himself so we can have real understanding.

Why would He want to communicate with human beings? We are just a small part of creation.

Audie · Mar 24, 2019

sealchan said:
Why would He want to communicate with human beings? We are just a small part of creation.

We'd be relatively less to a god than a jellyfish is to us.
Brain wise anyway.

Some jellyfish are good to eat.

sooda · Mar 24, 2019

URAVIP2ME said:
I agree 'return in glory to judge' and the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 will have a favorable judgement. The favorable outcome for them will be that they will be 'saved/delivered/rescued' through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Where is the evidence for two tribulations?

sealchan · Mar 24, 2019

adrian009 said:
Obviously I can't answer that question for Christians, as like you I moved beyond the Christian Church many years ago. However Christianity remains a foundation for my belief in God. There is a light within Christianity that is undeniable, but I see the light in Hinduism, Buddhism and my own faith. I'm good with mythology, allergory, metaphor, symbolism and all those other words we use when talking about the Christian narrative. However, I need more than that. If Christ was a mythical person who never existed it changes everything. Same deal with Buddha and Krishna. There needs to be some historicity in there for 'me'. I don't need to have the same historicity as the Christians but I do need a tangible foundation for my 'belief'.

Belief is important because it can contribute to us being better people and reaching across the divide to those who are different. I'm good with diversity and acknowledge what works for one person may not for another. We all need to read the reality of our own lifes. Like you I'm good to let people be.

This is as good an example of the "anchor" of faith as I was hoping to get at in the thread of that title. You require a touch of historicity to complete your faith, some tangible reality to anchor the intangible reality that is most of your faith. There has to he, in some way, shape or form, a payoff in practical reality for your belief to be sufficiently grounded.

Why is the literalness of the Bible so important?

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