Arming teachers is a great idea

suncowiam · Mar 7, 2018

Jollybear said:
I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

I say we arm the lunch ladies only. I'm sure they don't already do enough. What's a little more responsibility concerning the life and death of the students?

Soon all lunch lady resumes will have to include military or police services. Not only will they be serving warm meals to our students but they'll be serving cold lead to the criminals.

I can see Hollywood banking on this too. It's brilliant!

Kangaroo Feathers · Mar 7, 2018

74x12 said:
They have gun lockers in Israeli schools with "assault rifles" so it's not a big deal. The Israelis have been doing it for years ... how many school shootings do you hear about from Israel?

If the guns are in lockers, it rather negates the self defence theory, doesn't it?

Kangaroo Feathers · Mar 7, 2018

Jollybear said:
No and i dont need to be in order to make a logical point.

And if your gonna use that rediculious tactic, then by the same standard, all your points are invalidated too since youv not been in a shootout.

Give that tactic up.

I've been in "shootouts" and I say you're talking garbage.

Shadow Wolf · Mar 7, 2018

Armoured said:
what's the protocol for when the cops show up? How do they tell the armed teachers from the active shooter(s)?

They won't, and we'll have teachers killed by the police.

Subduction Zone · Mar 7, 2018

Armoured said:
Another area the "let's just arm teachers" crowd seems not to have considered. Increase the number of firearms in schools, and you WILL increase the number of firearm accidents. Who pays for them? What about friendly fire? Mr. Rambo from home ec. Misidentifies a threat and shoots some kid who wasn't actually an active shooter, who pays for that?

Here's a big one; what's the protocol for when the cops show up? How do they tell the armed teachers from the active shooter(s)?

That's a good question. I don't think that randomly arming teachers is a good idea. But a school district in my state has armed certain staff members. Not teachers. They all use the same sidearms. They all went through training. They all have to go through repeated refresher courses. Not a bad start. I do not know if they have a protocol for the situation that you mentioned.

Arming everyone without qualifications is clearly not a good idea. But arming those that are willing to go through training and continual refreshment of that training might actually help.

Sapiens · Mar 8, 2018

Jollybear said:
Thing is, if i did kill him instantly, then its over.

Or if i stunned him enough for him to not shoot back, then i can finish him with another pop.

Anything is possible.

I dont deny I COULD BE THE ONE TO DIE.

But for you to deny that id not have a chance being armed and he could die, that is a bit odd.

II'd give you a less than 5 percent chance.

Jollybear said:
I did explain it. Your getting on my nerves.

Do i really gotta break it down for you and type it all out and waste the time?

Listen: two scenarios.

First scenario: tax payer pays for teachers salaries and the guns and the training.

Scenario 2: tax payer pays for teachers salaries, plus a gaurds salary, plus guns and training for the gaurds.

Scenario 2 means the tax payer is paying for two salaries.

If the teachers are armed and theres no gaurds, thats less salaries straining the tax payer.

Simple math man. Come on.

Jollybear said:
Thing is, if i did kill him instantly, then its over.

Or if i stunned him enough for him to not shoot back, then i can finish him with another pop.

Anything is possible.

I dont deny I COULD BE THE ONE TO DIE.

But for you to deny that id not have a chance being armed and he could die, that is a bit odd.

Jollybear said:
I did explain it. Your getting on my nerves.

Do i really gotta break it down for you and type it all out and waste the time?

Listen: two scenarios.

First scenario: tax payer pays for teachers salaries and the guns and the training.

Scenario 2: tax payer pays for teachers salaries, plus a gaurds salary, plus guns and training for the gaurds.

Scenario 2 means the tax payer is paying for two salaries.

If the teachers are armed and theres no gaurds, thats less salaries straining the tax payer.

Simple math man. Come on.

You don't seem to understand ... no one will do it for the fun of it, armed teachers will have to be paid more. By the end of the day they will demand similar pay to police, and rightfully so. Teachers will also have to be paid overtime for firearms proficiency training or be given release time that will require hiring more subs.

Frater Sisyphus · Mar 8, 2018

We should arm students too, for when the teachers are out

This was a joke

Kuzcotopia · Mar 8, 2018

Jollybear said:
Dont put the gun on your desk. Keep it straped to your side.

But what if I have to take a poop? Like if I had Chinese food the night before? I may have to unstrapp so I can really. . . you know, bear down.

But then I'm so light-headed and satisfied afterwards that I forget the gun in the stall . . .

BSM1 · Mar 8, 2018

lewisnotmiller said:
Causation vs Correlation, even assuming your recollections are both accurate and representative.

No guns at my kids school, and no shootings.

Trust me, I am correct. This was even more pronounced during hunting season. Anecdotally this supports the statement that we don't have a gun problem, we have a societal problem.

Revoltingest · Mar 8, 2018

Jollybear said:
I dont need to be a expert to make a logical point.

If you disagree with the point why dont you counter it instead of making up this foolish, waste of time statements about me being a gun expert.

It's worth pointing out that few of us on either side here are weapons experts.
But it doesn't prevent applying reason, as you've done.
And certainly, the anti-gun crowd doesn't demand expertise from their own.
With states enabling school staff concealed carry, we should eventually
see some meaningful data to determine whether this is good policy.

Hey, which kind of bear are you?
Polar, grizzly, black, sloth, sun, short faced, panda?

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Prometheus85 said:
Also you gave multiple false dilemmas when there is only one option. And that’s the Americans taxpayers who are paying for the guns and training for teachers period. The guards are most likely trained and paid by the company that employed them.

So you did understand my point. Why did you pretend not too?

And "likely" is your assumption.

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Epic Beard Man said:
Wow your analogy is so...interesting....You don't think white nationalism is dangerous huh?

yet this happened

Florida school shooting suspect belonged to white nationalist group – The Denver Post

3 men charged in shooting after white nationalist Richard Spencer's speech in Florida

5 arrested in connection with white nationalist's event

Thank God for human beings from the Caucasian, Arab, Asian, Latino, Black, and other human ethnic culture that is against this nonsense.

Ok, allow me to build on my analogy.

I believe the human race is superior to animals, but i dont go out of my way to kill animals. However, if a animal threatens me, depending on the situation, i may kill it if i can.

In the first article notice this

"Jordan Jereb told The Associated Press that did not know Cruz personally and that “he acted on his own behalf” and is “solely responsible for what he just did.”

So, the white nationalist group did not teach cruz to commit that act. Hence, to stereotype all white nationalists as evil like cruz is assentially to go on there level in how they stereotype all blacks as inferior.

And cruz killed white people on top of it all. So his act of evil could not have been motivated by being a white nationalist.

Also the other articles, notice the shooting was caused by being provoked? It was not caused by them just going out of there way to seek to kill. Now, that certainly dont justify retailiation with a gun, but it shows they wernt trying to just kill for the hell of it.

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Armoured said:
I've been in "shootouts" and I say you're talking garbage.

Ok, you wanna press the same tactic Prometheus is, alright.

Theres cases where people been in shootouts WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU. Ive read such examples. I can give you the source if you need it.

Shad · Mar 8, 2018

Jollybear said:
I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

Security goes beyond an unknown amount of teachers being armed. It is more like a false sense of security. If all the armed teachers are in the west side of the campus those in the east side have less security. They are just oblivious to that balance issue due to anonymity involved in what would be conceal carry by teachers.

Armed teachers could potential be first responders but they are teaching not conducting security patrols, checks, etc.

Door control, student IDs required for any access, screening of problem students and calling the cops not the parents when a student is violent or break laws which is non-violent. Those need to addressed to create real security.

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Shadow Wolf said:
They won't, and we'll have teachers killed by the police.

Now that's a interesting point. Now wer getting somewhere.

Ok, Have the teachers wear a uniform or some kind of symbol logo on there shirt to identify them perhaps.

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Sapiens said:
II'd give you a less than 5 percent chance.

You don't seem to understand ... no one will do it for the fun of it, armed teachers will have to be paid more. By the end of the day they will demand similar pay to police, and rightfully so. Teachers will also have to be paid overtime for firearms proficiency training or be given release time that will require hiring more subs.

Ok, good, atleast by having a gun i have a better chance vs NOT having a gun.

Despite the fact i believe i have a bigger chance then 5%, but iregardless, a gun gives me at a minimum, 5% chance. And thats the whole point is increase defense.

How do you know no one will do it for the fun of it? Already theres some teachers that do it on there own.

And still, if we give the teachers a pay increase, thats still cheaper then paying for gaurds.

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Kuzcotopia said:
But what if I have to take a poop? Like if I had Chinese food the night before? I may have to unstrapp so I can really. . . you know, bear down.

But then I'm so light-headed and satisfied afterwards that I forget the gun in the stall . . .

Have the gun in its belt pocket. When you take a poop, after your done it will be impossible to forget the gun. To forget it would be the equivalent to forgetting your pants, lol.

Thief · Mar 8, 2018

Sapiens said:
Not really, you'd go looking for the shooter and all you'd accomplish is getting yourself killed and adding your handgun to his stash. Get real and stop thinking it happens like in the movies.

better to hide under your desk?

Jollybear · Mar 8, 2018

Revoltingest said:
It's worth pointing out that few of us on either side here are weapons experts.
But it doesn't prevent applying reason, as you've done.
And certainly, the anti-gun crowd doesn't demand expertise from their own.
With states enabling school staff concealed carry, we should eventually
see some meaningful data to determine whether this is good policy.

Hey, which kind of bear are you?
Polar, grizzly, black, sloth, sun, short faced, panda?

Yea, ive made the same point to prometheus that if he holds me to expertise, then by the same standard, that should invalidate his own points.

But, he conveniently ignored that.

I think debates would go better if both sides BEFORE bringing there ideas and solutions to the table, would trust that both sides have good intentions.

But because of either side bashing the motivations of the other, all kinds of noise gets in the way and time is wasted.

What kind of bear am i? Yogi bear on the cartoon.

oldbadger · Mar 8, 2018

Jollybear said:
I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

Logically daft.
Crazy.

1. If a % of teachers carry guns, then ALL of the teachers need to wear body armour at school, because a killer would seek to kill ALL teachers ASAP.

2. Air-conditioning systems will be needed in ALL schools because body armour gets very hot/sweaty otherwise.

3. All teachers, both gun carrying and unarmed will need extra pay because of extra risk.

4. Gun carrying teachers will need special all-risks insurance in case they shoot a child during a combat or by accident.

5. Gun carrying teachers will need full combat training, assessment and at least law enforcement pay.

6. Gun carrying teachers should be payed to give up at least two weeks of their holiday time each year for training and assessment reviews.

Arming teachers is a great idea

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