Is Hell Fair Since We Don't Choose to Exist

URAVIP2ME said:

The definition of the lake of fire according to Rev. 20 v 4 is that the lake of fire is ' second death'. [ Fire being symbolic of being devoured or destruction- Rev. 20 v 9 ]

All wicked ones are destroyed forever - Psalm 92 v 7- as in annihilated.
Even wicked Satan will be destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2 v 14 B
No everlasting life anywhere for the wicked.
'second death ' is shame and disgrace and contempt and abhorrence. None of them will have their names in the ' book of life '.

How can biblical ' hell' be eternal when everyone in the Bible's hell are ' delivered up ' out of hell [ Rev. 20 vs 13,14 ], then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into ' second death'. Vacated biblical hell dies in ' second death '. Even enemy death is done away with - 1st Corinthians 15 v 26

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Ingledsva said:

NOPE!
Exo 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exo 7:4 and Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
This is just another story of YHVH's skitzo nature, to kill dumb animals, torture people, and murder the innocent.
And since when would my committing a crime, mean any minor children should be murdered?
This idea is skitzo.
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Ingledsva said:

Yep, you are correct. It says ALL - both good and bad - go to Sheol, which is a holding place, until the end, and Final Judgment. At that time the bad will receive the second death - which is permanent.
The word used for - fire - is derived from the word for a refiners fire - in other words it totally destroys the dross.
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joshua3886 said:

And let's not forget that Mormons think non-Mormons are going to hell and many Catholics think that all non-Catholics are going to hell. So even picking the wrong Christian sect can get you sent to hell.

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Katzpur said:

I'd say Hell is fair since anybody who wants to end up in Heaven will be there.

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The Sum of Awe said:

If you believe in judgement upon death, and heaven and hell, is there an option to cease to exist? If not, is hell really fair?

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Thana said:

Proverbs 16:5 - Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished
Proverbs is my favourite book by the by.
But whatever, If you don't think arrogance is more than unproductive behaviour then I suppose that's between you and God.

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Praetorian said:

I do not believe in an immediate judgment. Although I am a deist, I grew up as a Southern Baptist. Revelation 20 talks about the resurrection and judgment of the dead. No where in the Christian Bible does it ever say anything about an immediate judgment upon death. You die, go to the grave and wait for the resurrection, judgment, and either life in paradise on new earth, or destruction in Gehenna (Revelation 20 and 21).

Having said that, I became a deist when I started thinking for myself instead of blindly accepting what some pastor said, based off some several thousand year old manuscripts from an era that had little to no scientific understanding. "God loves you, is merciful and just. But if you don't fear Him and accept what His "book" says, then you will burn in hell for eternity!" Really? Sounds more like a bipolar tyrant that beats people into submission and rules with an iron fist backed by fear and intimidation. Not my idea of love and mercy.

God, to me, is the creator. He loves us and gave us free will, and because of that He does not intervene. Whatever happens in life is a natural event, or a result of someone's choice. The aspects of the afterlife are not known, because once you leave this world for good, there is no coming back. No one can prove anything about the afterlife, regardless of religion.

To answer the OP, no the concept of hell is not fair. It was designed by the Church (and based off older religions) in order to rule through fear and guilt trips. The best way to maintain your power and wealth is to hold the "virtual keys to heaven."

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1. Matthew 3:12, Jesus speaks of the unquenchable fire. It is a fire that never goes out.
2. There is no water in Hell, it is hot and extremely dry and the occupants are continually thirsty with no relief.
3. There is no release from Hell.
4. Even though you may be with thousands of others, it is a desperately lonely place.
5. There is no repentance of sins of the occupants, because God’s Spirit is not there to facilitate the repentance.
6. Ecclesiastes 6:4, says that your name is covered in darkness. You are lost in Hell. Nobody knows you. You are forgotten. Everything is in confusion.
7. There is the constant feeling of terror in Hell.
8. Hell was originally brought into being for the Satan and His demons. They will also be there forever.
9. There is no love in Hell, because of the almost total absence of Jesus Christ our Lord.
10. There is no peace, because Christ is the Prince of Peace.
11. There is no mercy in Hell, because Christ is the origin of eternal mercy.
12. There are maggots and serpents there in abundance and without restraint.

The Sum of Awe said:

If you believe in judgement upon death, and heaven and hell, is there an option to cease to exist? If not, is hell really fair?

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The Sum of Awe said:

If you believe in judgement upon death, and heaven and hell, is there an option to cease to exist? If not, is hell really fair?

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Christ's Prophet said:

Jesus is a Hell fire preacher. Everywhere He preached Hell. When we talk about Salvation, we have to ask from what? It is eternal damnation. It is conscious, eternal punishment. It is a fool who tries to dumb down Hell. This is a place of thirst and agony and fire. Once you are there, there is no escape.
Observe:-

1. Matthew 3:12, Jesus speaks of the unquenchable fire. It is a fire that never goes out.
2. There is no water in Hell, it is hot and extremely dry and the occupants are continually thirsty with no relief.
3. There is no release from Hell.
4. Even though you may be with thousands of others, it is a desperately lonely place.
5. There is no repentance of sins of the occupants, because God’s Spirit is not there to facilitate the repentance.
6. Ecclesiastes 6:4, says that your name is covered in darkness. You are lost in Hell. Nobody knows you. You are forgotten. Everything is in confusion.
7. There is the constant feeling of terror in Hell.
8. Hell was originally brought into being for the Satan and His demons. They will also be there forever.
9. There is no love in Hell, because of the almost total absence of Jesus Christ our Lord.
10. There is no peace, because Christ is the Prince of Peace.
11. There is no mercy in Hell, because Christ is the origin of eternal mercy.
12. There are maggots and serpents there in abundance and without restraint.

If people remove themselves from Christ, then people are delivered to Hell, where Christ is not. Christ has been to Hell for us, so that we don't have to. God acts in the world to reveal His glory, and He punishes those who have refused to give Him the glory. In Hell, they can be as wicked as they want to without restraint. These are the people who have rejected His Sovereignty. Thank you Jesus for salvation. People are entering hell every second. Christ came to get us off that road. There is only one road to salvation that is John 3:16. Don’t be a God hater. Run to Jesus Christ for salvation, not run away from Him. Christ’s Prophet. Certainty for Eternity.

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Christ's Prophet said:

My Answer:-
Do you remember the original sin? In Genesis, Satan said to Eve “did God really say?”

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Christ's Prophet said:

She doubted the character of God, she doubted God’s goodness, and from there to Revelation, mankind has been doubting God at His Word. His Word is under siege from people who want it to say what they want it to say, whether they be feminists or Jehovah’s Witnesses or Unitarianism. Why can’t you take God at His word?

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Christ's Prophet said:

Jesus is a Hell fire preacher. Everywhere He preached Hell.

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URAVIP2ME said:

Yes, take God at His Word such as at John 3 v 16 two [2] choices: life eternal or perish [ be destroyed ]

1] unquenchable fire in Scripture can be symbolic just at the unending smoke of Isaiah 33 v 10 is symbolic of destruction or annihilation.

2] In order to be thirsty wouldn't a dead person have to be conscious ?
Jesus taught only ' sleep in death' at John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death such as at: Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13 and Ecclesiastes 9 v 5

3] If there is No release from hell, then please tell us how the dead Jesus got out of hell.
Doesn't Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; Psalm 16 v 10 inform us the day Jesus died that Jesus went to hell ?______ Since everyone in the Bible's hell is ' delivered up' [ resurrected out of hell ] according to Revelation 20 vs 13,14 and then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for death and hell then how can there be no release for hell ?

4] Yes, I guess one could say hell is a lonely place. Even the word cemetery means: sleeping place. The unconscious are not conscious of others around them - Ecclesiastes 9 v 5

5] Right, No repentance for the dead because the dead know nothing- Ecc. 9 v 5

6] Ecclesiastes 6 v 4 does Not use the word hell in that verse. Please notice Ecc. 7 v 1 B because the day of death is better than the day of one's birth. See Ecc. 9 v 5

7] How can there be a constant feeling of horror in hell when Jesus taught sleep while in biblical hell [ grave ] - John 11 vs 11-14. Dead Jesus was Not in horror while in hell.

8] Satan was never in hell. Satan ends up in ' second death' according to Rev,. 21 v 8
According to Hebrews 2 v 14 B Jesus destroys Satan. Thus ' second death' is a fitting term for destruction or annihilation as all wicked ones are destroyed forever- Psalm 92 v 7

9] 'Almost' total absence of Christ in hell ? Didn't God resurrect Jesus out of biblical hell according to Acts 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37 ?______So No way is Jesus in hell [ part or otherwise ]

10] There is No peace in hell and there is also No bliss in hell because everyone in the Bible's hell is Not conscious of anything - Ecclesiastes 9 v 5

11] Yes, there is mercy for the dead in hell because as Romans 6 v 7 says the dead are freed or acquitted from sins. Not meaning now innocent but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges no longer stick, Jesus, thru his shed blood, can pardon a person so the sin charges no longer stick. Thus opening the door to hell [ Rev. 1 v 18 ] because Jesus has the keys to unlock biblical hell.

12] The maggots or worms [ Isaiah 66 v 24 ] is showing just how complete the destruction of the wicked will be. Gehenna [ English hellfire ] was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed Not kept burning forever. That is why 2nd Peter 3 v 9 mentions repent or perish [ be destroyed ] The wicked are destroyed [ annihilated ] forever.- Ps. 92 v 7

So, unless a person has committed the unforgivable sin [ Matthew 12 v 32; Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 ] they will have a resurrection: Some to heaven [ Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10 ],
But the majority of mankind [ John 3 v 13 ; Acts 2 v 34 ] will have a healthy physical resurrection back to physical life on earth during Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom reign over earth.- Psalm 72 v8

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1. This situation is not the current, but a future event.
2. There already has been a type of separation at death. The plainest example is the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Luke 16:19-31. Every human being who has ever died is currently in Paradise or in Hades.
3. To be in the Lake of Fire does not mean annihilation. See Revelation 19:20 where the beast and the False Prophet have been cast into the Lake of Fire, and then 1,000 years later in Revelation 20:7, 10; the Devil is cats into the Lake of Fire where the beast and the False prophet still are, they have not gone into non-existence.
4. The eternal dwelling place of all unbelievers is the lake of fire. As part of the present creation, Death and Hades are also thrown into the lake of fire. All dead bodies and separated souls being re-joined, and no more separation of bodies and souls by death to take place, consequently the existence of these things is no farther necessary.
5. All this is like a giant jigsaw puzzle coming together at the end of time in preparation for the bride adorned for her Husband Revelation 21, e.g. death and Hades will be no more, because no-one will ever die from then onwards, there will be no more sorrow or pain anymore and we see Him as He is, because we will not be clothed in corruptible flesh and blood.
   I hope this helps. This enough to consider. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity.

rstrats said:

Christ's Prophet,

re: "It [hell] is conscious, eternal punishment."

As I interpret your question, ‘please reveal to me Scriptures which show that ‘Christ rejecting individuals’, are tormented in Hell forever and ever.’

1. Well, I think there are plenty to choose from. Jesus Christ our Lord was the greatest Hell fire Preacher ever. More than any other Person, He warned people of the danger of rejecting His offer of salvation. I would suggest the following Scriptures:-

From the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16:24:- And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
And further
Verse 26:- And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
So here just in this story is the fact that there is a combination of torment and the fact that no one can leave Hades.
2. Matthew 25:30:- And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And further in verse 46:- And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
NOTE: words used such as ‘everlasting punishment’ ‘weeping and gnashing of teeth,’ ‘outer darkness,’ are all descriptions of Hell.
And again in:-
3. Matthew 25:46, Jesus said:- And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Note:-Both words ‘eternal’ and ‘everlasting’ are identical (Greek:- αἰώνιος aiōnios= perpetual). If Hell is not eternal, then Heaven is also not eternal. Get rid of Hell, then you have to get rid of Heaven and eternal life.
4. Other Scriptures that you can consider:-
Revelation 14: 9:- And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
NOTE:-Those who end up in Hell, are there because their souls are ruined by sin. These are the people who have refused the healing that Christ brings.
Still looking at the proposed subject of being punished in Hell forever:- See Isaiah 66:
24 And they shall go forth, and look
upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:
for their worm shall not die,
neither shall their fire be quenched;
and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
There are many roads to Hell. There are the roads of pride, or the road as a paedophile, or as a corrupt preacher, or practising liars or homosexuals. But there is only one road to heaven, See John 3:16.
5: 1 Thessalonians 1:10:- And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME.
Jesus rescues us from the wrath to come. God is a God of love, but that is balanced by the fact that He is also a God of justice. His holy character demands punishment for those people have rejected His grace and who hold Him in contempt. If there is no eternal punishment in Hell, then I would ask’ where is the appropriate punishment for the likes of mass murderers, such as Pol pot, Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Charles Manson, who are instruments of Satan who was a liar and a murderer from the beginning? If their punishment is annihilation, that would be a reward for their evil. Annihilation is not a punishment but a reward for their wickedness and where does that place God’s perfect justice.
I pray that this helps. May Christ’s peace and the direction of the Holy Ghost be with you? Christ’s prophet, certainty for eternity.

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Praetorian said:

I don't recall Satan ever being mentioned in the story of Eden. Only in Revelation is a line drawn to the serpent of Eden to the serpent defined as Satan. Even then, Satan is a title, not a name. It helps to know Hebrew. Furthermore, I do not believe in "original sin" and the concept that because of two people long ago, the rest of humanity is doomed from birth. Man made drivel.
So what you are saying is that God, being omniscient and omnipotent, created us with flaws, knowing that we would "fall," and then holds us accountable for the way He created us...
Furthermore, how do you know that what is written in the Bible is "God's word"? Because some long dead guy, who went up on a mountain ALONE, said so? Or is it because some gospel writers, who were not eyewitnesses to the accounts of Jesus, wrote about Jesus decades after his death? Where I come from, we call that hearsay.
No, he preached about Gehenna, which was known to the people of that era to be symbolic. Hell is an Anglo Saxon term and did not come around until almost 1,000 years AFTER Jesus' death. It is the early RCC that preached hell fire, trying to scare the pants off everyone in order to maintain the church's dominance, power and wealth. Why do you think the RCC was so against a translation out of Latin?
Furthermore, Revelation 20 and 21 clearly state that "Hell" will consume (destroy) those who fail judgment, as will death and hades be destroyed (no more dying or grave).
If you believe in Hell as a place of eternal torment and punishment, then you worship a god that is a diabolical tyrant.

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1. You Say:-that Satan is a title, not a name. I’m sorry but I can’t find anyone who agrees with you. For example:- sātān [‏שָׂטָן‎, <H7854>] sātān is a noun designating both "Satan," the NAME of the demonic archenemy of God, and the "adversary." The term is found around thirty times. Expository Dictionary of Bible Words: Word Studies for Key English Bible Words Based on the Hebrew and Greek Texts.
2. You said: I don't recall Satan ever being mentioned in the story of Eden .Haven’t you read:-
3. Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV)
   14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
   15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. This is the prophecy about the Serpent and Satan are one or are you just pedantic about when Satan started using his name?? He will bruise the heel of Christ, which forecasts His crucifixion, and Christ will bruise his (Satan’s) head which will be a fatal blow at the end of time.
4. Christ came to deal with sin which came into the world via Satan’s temptation:-

1. You said ‘Furthermore, how do you know that what is written in the Bible is "God's word"? Because some long dead guy, who went up on a mountain ALONE,

1. You said:- No, he preached about Gehenna, which was known to the people of that era to be symbolic. Hell is an Anglo Saxon term
   Personally, I don’t care what name you call it or what era’s name you give it. What I am trying to impress upon you is to believe the reality of it, and avoid it, by putting your trust in Him as Savior. You must at all times deal with REALITY.
2. You said: If you believe in Hell as a place of eternal torment and punishment, then you worship a god that is a diabolical tyrant.
   You obviously don’t understand God, I would strongly recommend that you prayerfully read the Bible through from Genesis to Revelation every year so that you can get an idea of God. THIS IS THE GOD WITH WHOM YOU MUST DO BUSINESS. To be stubbornly otherwise, it is like standing on a railway track with an approaching train, but arguing about the colour of the train.
3. You said:- It helps to know Hebrew.
   Well, I am just so glad that you know Hebrew. Here is more heart warming blessings for you.
   יְהוָֹה צָפָה סָתַר אִישׁ רֵעַ Christ’s prophet, certainty for eternity