Help in becoming a religious man

maxxwyatt · Aug 1, 2014

Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Sees · Aug 1, 2014

The only way to have hard evidence for your self is to experience for your self.

Estro Felino · Aug 1, 2014

I absolutely agree with Sees.
Believing in God is not that important in life. All that really matters is that you are at peace with the world and that you have found the purpose of your life.

God cannot be neither explained nor proved. You can only feel Him.

chinu · Aug 1, 2014

I myself tried a lot to become a true-religious man, But failed. Than how can I help you.. loll ?

To me religion means re-union with from where all started the journey of life in the beginning.

You asked; that you need proof and solid evidence to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings.

I ask: Why to understand ? what made you to seek all this ? Thus the day you started seeking all this was you first step towards re-union/religion.

bobhikes · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

What proof do you really have? As an astrophysicist you should have seen the 2 recent studies. One indicating they might have found a particle that exceeds the speed of light and second that the speed of light might need to be adjusted. These 2 studies should impact all your proofs.

Can you prove reality is real?
Other than human thoughts, inventions and rational, what is science confirmed by?
Free will or Determinism?

What hard proof would you need that God exists? Do you need to shake Gods hand? How would you know that it wasn't a dream?

Truth is God need not be proved. Live you life as you want. If you need God, find God, if you don't, don't. Just let others be as happy with their choice as you are with yours.

Tarheeler · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Nope, and since you've already stated that no proof exists it would be fairly useless for anyone to try.

The simple fact is that evidence for God is experienced individually, and people find different evidence in different places. If it were objective and verifiable it would be called knowledge rather than belief. I'm always fascinated when someone says that they're "trying to believe"; if you see no evidence for it, why would you try or even want to? Can you make yourself believe in things by just wishing it to be so?

If you don't already see evidence of God in the world around you, nobody is going to be able to force you to accept it.

chinu · Aug 1, 2014

Tarheeler said:
Can you make yourself believe in things by just wishing it to be so?

Good question.

maxxwyatt · Aug 1, 2014

in response to your thread these studies you are speaking about were human mathematical error calculation spun up by the public media for good content. I know this because A) I am in CERN working right now B) public media are rarely credible C) it states the human error in multiple articles.

Science is confirmed by.. Science!!! repeatable testings and results! For example the bible states the universe was created 6,000 years ago but clearly it wasn't. We have evidence and proven facts it is over 15 billion years old.

I have heard repeatedly the statement "I am a god fearing christian", if you are told to fear your god and open him like a slave, how can you trust him to show you the right path?

too many things just don't add up to me..

bobhikes said:
What proof do you really have? As an astrophysicist you should have seen the 2 recent studies. One indicating they might have found a particle that exceeds the speed of light and second that the speed of light might need to be adjusted. These 2 studies should impact all your proofs.

Can you prove reality is real?
Other than human thoughts, inventions and rational, what is science confirmed by?
Free will or Determinism?

What hard proof would you need that God exists? Do you need to shake Gods hand? How would you know that it wasn't a dream?

Truth is God need not be proved. Live you life as you want. If you need God, find God, if you don't, don't. Just let others be as happy with their choice as you are with yours.

bobhikes · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
in response to your thread these studies you are speaking about were human mathematical error calculation spun up by the public media for good content. I know this because A) I am in CERN working right now B) public media are rarely credible C) it states the human error in multiple articles.

Science is confirmed by.. Science!!! repeatable testings and results! For example the bible states the universe was created 6,000 years ago but clearly it wasn't. We have evidence and proven facts it is over 15 billion years old.

I have heard repeatedly the statement "I am a god fearing christian", if you are told to fear your god and open him like a slave, how can you trust him to show you the right path?

too many things just don't add up to me..

Science is confirmed by humans until it is changed or proved wrong which happens pretty often.

It seems interesting that you are only talking about christian creationist beliefs. Have you used your scientific methods and applied them to the other versions of God or is just one belief good enough. God has been believed in since the first humans walked the earth.

Agnostic75 · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Welcome to this forum.

Since you are a scientist, you might be interested to know, or probably already know that the National Academy of Sciences is neutral on the existence of God. I think that that is a reasonable position.

Jainarayan · Aug 1, 2014

Why would anyone want to believe in something they don't? I don't believe in pink sparkly unicorns, so why would I want to believe in them because other people do? I have no proof that God or the gods exists, but for me it's a matter of faith and feelings I have.

George-ananda · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

I think you already know nothing you would call 'hard evidence' exists. And think for a minute; would could 'hard evidence' possibly even look like?

You might want to acquaint yourself with more eastern views on the question. I have adopted a non-dual view (God and creation are not-two). God can be found by looking inwards not outwards; deeper and deeper it is only One and we are the One.

Prophet · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

There is plenty of fiction in the Bible. And sorry there's no evidence, just reasoning. If you want it from me, I'd be happy to write my own version of this, but I couldn't do it any better than C.S. Lewis did it in the first chapters of Mere Christianity.

But if you want the broad strokes, best as I remember...

1) People generally assume there's such a thing as right and wrong.
2) Amongst two different concepts of right and wrong, it is often demonstrable that one concept is closer to true than the other, causing one to infer that morality must be measured to a true standard.
3) Morality must be universal.
4) God must be real.

This all said, I have a hard time believing that your doubt in God's existence is a central problem for you. What's up? Trying to get with a hottie Christian? Just tell her what she needs to hear.

StarryNightshade · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

First of all, hello and welcome.

As far as I'm concerned, if you can't find yourself believing in God, then you shouldn't force yourself to do so. It doesn't come from empirical study, but from direct experience. If it is in your natural inclination to be be skeptical, then that's just how it should be. Nothing wrong with needing or wanting solid evidence.

Of course, I should also clarify that I don't think that non-theists are inherently bad. As a religious individual, I think there are many non-theists who are more righteous and moral than many religious ones.

loverOfTruth · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Hi there....I commend your effort in finding the Truth. How'bout I point you to some materials to study and watch and then we can discuss ?

[youtube]1XyK-l-5q6Q[/youtube]
Is Life Just A Game ?
You can search for more videos online by Hamza Tzortzis if interested.

Also, I suggest following the thread Is there any evidence for the Truth of Islam ?

Finally, as a fellow human being and a well wisher, I would like to suggest to anyone in this situation the following. For a while, set aside all religions, all holy books and have a heartfelt conversation with the Creator directly in your heart and mind - ask Him to guide you towards Him if He truly exists. Be sincere regarding your intention to follow Him if you find the True Message. And I have no doubt in my mind that you will be guided to the True Message and you will have confirmation/confidence in your heart that this is it.

It doesn't make sense that God wants us to worship Him and when we seek Him sincerely that He would play hide and seek and will not show us the path towards Him. At least that's not the kind of God I worship. As stated in the Holy Qur'an :
"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way." (Al Qur'an 2:186)

Also, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said that God said: "He who draws close to Me(God) a hand's span, I(God) will draw close to him an arm's length. And whoever draws near Me(God) an arm's length, I(God) will draw near him a fathom's length. And whoever comes to Me(God) walking, I(God) will go to him running."

I wish you Peace and Success in this journey of yours.

Quintessence · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings.

It's very likely that in everyday living, you need neither proof nor solid evidence for understanding and belief.

While you're driving around town, odds are you don't whip out a scientific instrument to verify that a red traffic light is really red and that you should stop. You probably don't question every person who pays you a compliment for proof of their statement either. I also don't imagine that you demand your waiter at the restaurant conduct an analysis of your food to prove that it is indeed organic or high in fiber.

In short, life would be unlivable if one demanded these things on a day to day basis, which is why none of us do it in practice. So then the question is: what about this topic makes you demand this level of scrutiny?

maxxwyatt said:
With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't.

Perhaps you should try a different god, or gods? The one-god isn't the only god-concept out there. Also, being religious or having a religion doesn't require theism at all. There are non-theistic religions.

maxxwyatt said:
There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

What is your standard of proof? There are many, many proofs for the one-god of the Bible, along with many lines of evidence. If you're restricting your criteria of proof to "scientific evidence" of course you're not going to find it for the one-god. That god-concept is not scientific in any fashion, so why would one ask for something that one will never find?

Say the Bible is a work of fiction. Then what? How does something being fiction diminish its value? Do you not enjoy a good story? Do you not have an appreciation for the arts? Do these things not move you and have a reality to you in spite of not being "literally real?"

maxxwyatt said:
I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Nope. As I said, that god-concept is not scientific, and I suspect you're constraining your proofs to empirical naturalism. Besides, I don't accept that god-concept myself, so I do not make a good advocate for it. But keep in mind what I said earlier about that humans do not, in practice, demand that level of proof for the vast majority of things in their lives. Why do you demand it here? Can you see a purpose to embracing something ideological that lacks your standard of proof? If not, then honestly, I would suggest you not bother. Theism isn't for everybody.

maxxwyatt · Aug 1, 2014

i think hard evidence might look like people not killing in the name of religion. IE muslims law stating the death penalty for renouncing their religion. Thats a start.

Either way I highly respect your non-dual view. One question though, when you say looking inward to find god what do you mean exactly?

George-ananda said:
I think you already know nothing you would call 'hard evidence' exists. And think for a minute; would could 'hard evidence' possibly even look like?

You might want to acquaint yourself with more eastern views on the question. I have adopted a non-dual view (God and creation are not-two). God can be found by looking inwards not outwards; deeper and deeper it is only One and we are the One.

LuisDantas · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Is there any good reason why you can't just go on with whatever your natural feelings about the possible existence of God are?

loverOfTruth · Aug 1, 2014

maxxwyatt said:
i think hard evidence might look like people not killing in the name of religion. IE muslims law stating the death penalty for renouncing their religion. Thats a start.

Not all Muslims believe in that ... some do misinterpret and apply it - which is pretty much the case for any law/text in the world that you would always find a group of people misapplying it but can't blame the religion or the text for that.

"It is also significant that the Qur`an refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27) and yet does not prescribe any punishment for it." [1]

On the contrary, it says "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah(God) hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah(God) heareth and knoweth all things." (Al-Qur'an 2:256)

The only circumstance where it was allowed was apostasy-cum-treason. When Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) executed apostates, he did it because Muslims were at war and because Islam was still partial, and Muslims needed protection from the hypocrites who purposely entered Islam and deserted it later to create confusion among the Muslims.

Hope this makes sense.

[1]http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm

p.s : By the way, that is no hard evidence as to the Truth of the message (as it is very much subjective).

Twilight Hue · Aug 1, 2014

I dont see why a god needs to come into play for a religious experience.

Just set up an alter with perhaps candles and incense and celebrate the natural order of things as they already are.

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