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Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?

starlite

starlite

Texasgirl
Beaudreaux said:
So, God showed great love by not murdering our anscestors for disobedience? You and I have different ideas about what "great love" is.

But....but...you said "he does not desire any to be destroyed". What is he, Schizophrenic?!?!?!

So, God will "undo" the suffering of all the people who have suffered so. Sort of rectify his mistake?
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God is long-suffering (patient) only as long as it is in harmony with justice, righteousness, and wisdom. The fact that long-suffering is exercised when a bad situation exists shows that it is meant to give opportunity for those involved in the bad situation to change, to straighten up. When matters come to a point where it is seen that there is no hope of such change, justice and righteousness would be violated if long-suffering should continue. Then God acts in wisdom to remove the bad situation. His patience comes to an end.
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
starlite said:
God will fulfill his purpose and restore the earth to it's original Garden of Eden condition.....please read Psalms 37: 9-11 and 29
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So, why is he torturing us now? If there can be a world withouth pain and suffering, why does God put us in one where AIDS kills babies and good people starve to death? He could stop it but he doesn't. Why?
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
.lava said:
people commit crime and people hold God responsible of this. first you explain me what kind of sane logic is this.


.
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If you see a man getting beaten in the street and you have the power to stop it, is it not your fault you didn't?
 
.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
Luminous said:
No. That person also has to care.
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exactly and that is the fault i care about. what kind of fault makes people think they can play gods among us, what fault would make powerful the cruel, what fault would let people beat each other on the streets...your question was for individual but problem i see is social, not personal.

yes, i would defend weak if i could.

.
 
Spiritone

Spiritone

Active Member
Beaudreaux said:
Why are you certain?

Because of decades of study/searching and what has been demonstrated by certain people like Edgar Cayce.
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How do you know that Jesus' directions are the most advanced?

They are to me because of comparing them to others. [/quote]
 
ayani

ayani

member
If the Christian God exists, he knew about the Asian Tsunami, Hurrican Katrina and Smallpox before they occurred, yet he did nothing to prevent them from happening. Why not?

there are a number of Biblical explanations given for the reasons behind human suffering.

sometimes suffering is caused by Satanic / evil influences at work :

Luke 13:10-17

sometimes suffering is God's will in action, to bring about greater things not understood from the p.o.v. of the one suffering. within the Bible, the greatest example of this is the cross. :

John 9:1-7

sometimes suffering is used by God to punish / discipline us, or to direct our attention to something He'd like us to correct within ourselves. Biblically, arrogance, sin, cruelty, and waywardness of thinking or behaviour is grounds for God's punishment / correction :

Acts 5:1-11

sometimes, bad things just happen to decent people. not because they deserved it or asked for it- but because Satan is destructive, cruel, and at work in the world.

Luke 13:1-5

sometimes God does intervene and alleviate suffering Himself. through a sudden change in circumstances, a marvelous opportunity, or a miraculous occurrence. yes, God is aware of our suffering. Jesus did not predict a future free of suffering for His disciples- yet He promises that those who persevere till the end will be blessed. and a Christian can look to Christ Himself, who chose to focus on God's holiness and purpose, even in the midst of His own suffering. a Christian must also look to Jesus' clear commandments that we are to do our part to relieve the suffering of others, to show mercy, and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

we may not have all the answers as to why we suffer, but we do have clear examples as to how we can respond to suffering in the world around us.
 
Freelancer7

Freelancer7

Active Member
Alla Prima said:
Sure we struggle along in spite of this so called 'creator's' botched job. What choice do we have. My point is it makes no sense why an omnipotent creator (postulated by religious people) would create a world of suffering for creations he is supposed to love.

So either he is not omnipotent or he doesn't actually love his creations. You can't have both.
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It is not the people who love, who harmonise religion in a loving way that create a world of suffering, dig deeper Alla Prima.
 
Spiritone

Spiritone

Active Member
ayani said:
If the Christian God exists, he knew about the Asian Tsunami, Hurrican Katrina and Smallpox before they occurred, yet he did nothing to prevent them from happening. Why not?

there are a number of Biblical explanations given for the reasons behind human suffering.

sometimes suffering is caused by Satanic / evil influences at work :

Luke 13:10-17

sometimes suffering is God's will in action, to bring about greater things not understood from the p.o.v. of the one suffering. within the Bible, the greatest example of this is the cross. :

John 9:1-7

sometimes suffering is used by God to punish / discipline us, or to direct our attention to something He'd like us to correct within ourselves. Biblically, arrogance, sin, cruelty, and waywardness of thinking or behaviour is grounds for God's punishment / correction :

Acts 5:1-11

sometimes, bad things just happen to decent people. not because they deserved it or asked for it- but because Satan is destructive, cruel, and at work in the world.

Luke 13:1-5

sometimes God does intervene and alleviate suffering Himself. through a sudden change in circumstances, a marvelous opportunity, or a miraculous occurrence. yes, God is aware of our suffering. Jesus did not predict a future free of suffering for His disciples- yet He promises that those who persevere till the end will be blessed. and a Christian can look to Christ Himself, who chose to focus on God's holiness and purpose, even in the midst of His own suffering. a Christian must also look to Jesus' clear commandments that we are to do our part to relieve the suffering of others, to show mercy, and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

we may not have all the answers as to why we suffer, but we do have clear examples as to how we can respond to suffering in the world around us.
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Yes, there are many reasons supposed by different people. Here are a few:
The Universe operates by physical laws that mostly can not be changed and God gave us free will to choose. Maybe if we/humanity were to accept the will of the Creator instead of too often opposing it all would be well and suffering would cease.
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
"There is no subject -- and can be none -- concerning which any human being is under any obligation to believe without evidence...The man who, without prejudice, reads and understands the Old and New Testaments will cease to be an orthodox Christian. The intelligent man who investigates the religion of any country without fear and without prejudice will not and cannot be a believer....He who cannot harmonize the cruelties of the Bible with the goodness of Jehovah, cannot harmonize the cruelties of Nature with the goodness and wisdom of a supposed Deity. He will find it impossible to account for pestilence and famine, for earthquake and storm, for slavery, for the triumph of the strong over the weak, for the countless victories of injustice. He will find it impossible to account for martyrs -- for the burning of the good, the noble, the loving, by the ignorant, the malicious, and the infamous. "
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
idea said:
actually, happiness is dependent on suffering...
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Please explain (succinctly if you can) how the suffeing described in the OP (dying painfully and horrifically in a Tsunami, plague or hurricane) enabled the victims to be happy.
idea said:
life does not even exist without death. Life is a relative term too.
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Interesting. Many Christians believe that God has created a place where there is no death or suffering where people will "live forever". You seem to believe this is impossible. With your viewpoint, "eternal life" could never happen and there could never be a place where there was joy without it also having suffering. No heaven for Idea?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
idea said:
Sorry, perhaps I did not state that clearly. The point is, you don’t gain strength from an experience by laying down and letting it overpower you. You gain strength by standing up and fighting against it, overcoming it.
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Are you suggesting that the victims of tsunamis, hurricanes and disease laid down in some way? That there was some way people swept away to drown in a 100' wave could have fought harder to overcome it?
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Beaudreaux said:
Please explain (succinctly if you can) how the suffeing described in the OP (dying painfully and horrifically in a Tsunami, plague or hurricane) enabled the victims to be happy.
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You're arguing a strawman. No one is saying that suffering causes happiness, that would be stupid. We're saying that the existence of suffering enables, or at least deepens happiness. It's about the balance of Creation.

OK, reading that back, it's not even clear to me. Before continuing with the debate, can you let me know if you at least understand what I'm trying to say?
 
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Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
idea said:
“create” is a bad translation. God “transforms” evil and darkness into peace and light. This scripture is describing the incredible powers of transformation that God has.
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So, I take a couple of learnings from this.
  1. Published translations of the Bible are unreliable. Biblical/linquistic scholars who have dedicated their lives to this work are making significant errors in translastion, errors that directly affect theology.
  2. God is not the creator of everything. Something else created evil.
Idea, I urge you to spend more time fixing the current translations of the Bible. If they are this flawed, and you can see it where others apparently cannot, then I am hard pressed to think of a better way you could spend your life.

Also, do you have any insight into the being who created evil and perhaps any other parts of existence that God did not?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
idea said:
God did not create us.

How many times do I have to say it?

God did not create us.
God did not create us.
God did not create us.

He is forming what eternally exists. We have no beginning.

in a beginning... "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. "


Hebrew Word Studies
The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews.

IOW - The word "create" should not appear anywhere in the Bible.!!!!!
The word “create” does not exist in ancient Hebrew.

God refines, forms, organizes - He does not "create"...
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Wow....who created the stuff God formed us out of?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Freelancer7 said:
He Botched the Job?? Your Inner Self is the key to happiness, you might be upset what you see around you via news networks, but that is by no means the Lord Almighty's Fault. Love Your Intelligence, Love the Intelligence of Life.
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Hi Freelancer,

I refer to the Original Post. The question in this thread is why God does not prevent evil, pain and suffering like that caused by the Asian Tsunami, Hurrican Katrina and Smallpox. God, being omnipotent and omniscient, clearly knew these events would occur before they did, and he clearly could have stopped them. And, he clearly did not. Why did he allow those people to suffer and die?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Jeremy Mason said:
FYI, we are all going to die. You see acts of nature as being bad and yes, they are hard for us human to go through. But physical death is the birthing pains of a brighter spiritual life. One I'll be happy to shed.
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An interesting take on this, but in a Christian worldview that only works if 100% of the victims of these disasters are Christians. If not, those who are not Christians are headed to an eternity of unimaginable pain and punishment. This makes God's inaction worse by an order of magnitude since he is letting so many go to hell rather than give them another chance.
 
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