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If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
ppp
Well-Known Member
That is not how thinking works. You may not have originated the idea, but you are constantly imagining and reimagining the concepts. That is why people who supposedly believe the same thing get into disagreements. We are all constantly re-fabricating and re-working our own views. And there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that you have no way of checking your work against reality.
ppp
Well-Known Member
It's just a matter of time is what everyone says about their pet religion.
That is just you stroking your ego. Even if it turned out there is actually a Christ of some sort, there is still no reason to believe it today. It would be wrong to believe that claim today even if it turned out that the claim is true.
ppp
Well-Known Member
If I ask a million people to right down a number, then I roll a 20 sided die, does that meant that the people who wrote down the same number had some sort of special understanding? No. It just means that random stuff happens. Those people were not right. They were just coincidental.
I don't think you understand skepticism. Why would they squirm?
Oh, by 'wrong' you mean not true or incorrect? That is of course possible. I thought you meant it was somehow morally wrong to believe in it! Lots of 'scientific' hypotheses turn out to be incorrect in time. This too could be wrong.
Skeptics are as fanatical about their 'non-beliefs' as believers are about their beliefs. If fact. I think, if an event such as the coming of the Christ occurs, the whole world for these skeptics will fall apart - some may even commit suicide. It will be quite interesting.
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
Technically , this is true.
There have been many analisys regarding this kind of statements.
Everyone predicts something.
Could you define 'some sort'?
What do you mean by that , the existence or the Scriptural Christ?
I opened Oxford Dictinary and here is what i got for reason:
"reason / /ˈriːzn/
noun
1.a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
"she asked him to return, but didn't give a reason"
2. the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically.
"there is a close connection between reason and emotion"
verb
think, understand, and form judgements logically.
"humans do not reason entirely from facts"
Who is Jesus in your worldview?
I am just intrested in knowing what kind of criteria you use to define reason.
The only logical(to me) that we can actually speak is the difference between Historical Jesus and Jesus from the NT.
Why ? Could you say something more ?
ppp
Well-Known Member
And were are done. I dislike people who fantasize about the deaths of others.
ppp
Well-Known Member
'Some sort' means pick any of the random millions of claims about the nature of Christ that are people claim and have claimed and will claim.
"Scriptural Christ" is just code for whatever the random person interprets as being Christ from whatever they consider to be scripture.
I am using it in the sense of rational justification. Which is to say demonstrable facts filtered through inductive logic acting on falsifiable hypotheses.
If you just mean, did the guy exists? I don't know. But I am fine with the historical consensus that he did. If you are talking about the supernatural claims - I do not believe those as none of those have come even close to the aforementioned threshold of rational justification.. I address the claims of the person to whom I am speaking.
I think I answered that. At least in frame.
Like I said, I am fine with there having been a guy who was a wandering preacher. The supernatural claims are not credible.
There has been no demonstration that any of the people claiming that there is a supernatural in general, or miracles in particular know, or are even capable of knowing what they claim.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know I once started a thread called "If Jesus returns, how would you know it was Jesus?" but I have looked all over and I cannot find it.
Anyhow, the answer is very simple. Nobody could ever KNOW it was Jesus, because there would be no way to prove such a claim, so people would only be able to believe that it was the return of Christ, or not believe that., based upon their expectations.
At first only a few people would recognize Christ when He returned, but eventually more and more people would recognize Him, just as happened when Jesus came the first time.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was just going to eat dinner and I thought something I needed to add. I really did not want to turn the laptop back on but I felt compelled to do so.
If any man came and claimed to be the same Jesus Christ who walked the earth 2000 years ago, He would have to be a fraud because Jesus said the world would see Him no more, He was no more in this world, and His work was finished here.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
As such, we know that the return of Christ will not be the same man Jesus as Christians expect Him to be, and because Christians are expecting the same man Jesus, it is impossible for them to ever recognize Christ when He actually returns.
I consider this to be a very serious matter since Christians will be waiting till hell freezes over for Jesus who is never coming and meanwhile the world if going to hell in a bread basket. Why most Baha'is don't understand the gravity of this situation is beyond me but I think it is because they have their heads in the sand.
I've done my duty. Now I can go eat dinner and watch some TV.
Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or, 'There,' don't believe it. For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. "Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they tell you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' don't go out; 'Behold, he is in the inner chambers,' don't believe it. For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For wherever the carcass is, there will the vultures be gathered together.
Matt. 24:23-28
As therefore the darnel is gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Matt. 13:40-45
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Going by the book:
He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him.
... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
... I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.’
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
Just citing the Bible. Nothing of this has happened yet and I don't believe it will ever happen.
Niatero
*banned*
I'm curious about something. If I'm understanding correctly, you don't believe everything that Baha'u'llah says, and you don't believe in doing everything that he says to do. Am I understanding that correctly?
No worries friend ---there will be no squirming -- Christ was supposed to show up the lifetime of the people living at the time of Christ .. but that didn't happen .. and for 2000 years folks have been complaining about it. The squirming was done not by the skeptics but by the believers .. who squirmed a whole lot while being burned at the stake.
I disagree .. Skeptics are far less fanatic than the believers -- Did not see the skeptics willingly killing themselves for the faith like Christians and radical Islamists.
My expeience is that the believers are the ones doing most of the squirming.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
According to both Luke’s Gospel, and John’s, his disciples didn’t recognise him immediately after the resurrection, and he’d only been gone three days.
Yet another argument, perhaps, for not taking Bible stories too literally. Jesus, after all, spoke mostly in riddles; those whose eyes are opened will see, seems to be a recurring theme. This may refer to eyes as something more than just sense organs.
Yet another argument, perhaps, for not taking Bible stories too literally. Jesus, after all, spoke mostly in riddles; those whose eyes are opened will see, seems to be a recurring theme. This may refer to eyes as something more than just sense organs.
Niatero
*banned*
Without his children.