If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?

[Aupmanyav]

Showing that "Christ" has come is only part of their problem. As you know, they also have to show how he is the return of Krishna and Buddha and several others.
That is the true miracle... How they can be everything to everybody.

Not at all a problem with Bahais. It is the same 'Noor-e-Ilahi' (Glory of Allah) which stops at Bahaollah for the next 850 years.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (Bahais shiver at his name), Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr. were also 'Noor-e-Ilahi'.
Everything in the universe, humans, animals, vegetation and non-living objects too are 'Noor-e-Ilahi'.
What is it which is not 'Noor-e-Ilahi'?

 

[CG Didymus]

Not at all a problem with Bahais. It is the same 'Noor-e-Ilahi' (Glory of Allah) which stops at Bahaollah for the next 850 years.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (Bahais shiver at his name), Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr. were also 'Noor-e-Ilahi'.
Everything in the universe, humans, animals, vegetation and non-living objects too are 'Noor-e-Ilahi'.
What is it which is not 'Noor-e-Ilahi'?

This belief in "messengers" from God is always a problem. Some people are going to believe, and some people are going to reject the messenger.

Ironically, there are more followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahamad then Baha'u'llah.

There are more people that believe in Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon and the Latter-Day-Saints than believes in the Baha'i Faith.

They have a very simple message... "Let's all stop fighting and live as one people." Then they complicate it by claiming to have fulfilled the promises made in all religions.

Then there are these titles they gave themselves... The Bab, meaning the gate, and Baha'u'llah, meaning the Glory of God. I don't know, but does either "The Gate" or "The Glory of God" mean anything to people in some of other religions?

It's mainly directed at Christians. And is it a fulfillment of the supposed prophecy that the Glory of God was seen coming from the gate that faces East. But these guys took those titles.

It would be like someone taking the title "The Lamb of God" and then saying, "Look, I'm talked about in the Book of Revelation as being the One."

Now with Hinduism, as far as I know, Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the return of Krishna. That came later when Abdul Baha' made that claim. But, since Baha'is like to find ways to connect themselves to most all religions, I'm wondering if they are trying to find ways to connect to those Hindus that don't follow Krishna?

 

[loverofhumanity]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him, and not a fake one?

Christ said that only a pure heart can recognise God.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Mt 5:8).

 

[CG Didymus]

Christ said that only a pure heart can recognise God.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Mt 5:8).

And for all those people that believe they have a "pure" heart, who have they recognized and why? Or... who are they expecting to come and how do they think they will recognize him?

I got a feeling all those "pure" of heart people will have different answers on who they found or who they are expecting.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And for all those people that believe they have a "pure" heart, who have they recognized and why? Or... who are they expecting to come and how do they think they will recognize him?

I got a feeling all those "pure" of heart people will have different answers on who they found or who they are expecting.

Those are Christ’s Words that those with a pure heart shall see God so I’m sure that those who have pure hearts have seen Him. And those who do not have pure hearts will deny Him. His Words on that topic are very clear.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Christ said that only a pure heart can recognise God.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Mt 5:8).

So believed the emperor also and got his nose cut to see his new clothes.
Bahaollah too did not say anything different. The message with Allah and all the messengers has always been the same - "First get your nose cut'.
'No go' without a nose cut.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Those are Christ’s Words that those with a pure heart shall see God so I’m sure that those who have pure hearts have seen Him. And those who do not have pure hearts will deny Him. His Words on that topic are very clear.

In this age, I think maybe a pure heart is open to the Oneness of God and humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

So believed the emperor also and got his nose cut to see his new clothes.
Bahaollah too did not say anything different. The message with Allah and all the messengers has always been the same - "First get your nose cut'.
'No go' without a nose cut.

Humanity is always in need of Educators to encourage and inspire us to get along. We seem to be struggling to accept all people unconditionally as our common humanity and prefer killing and mutilating one another. Another Voice appealing for us to reconcile our differences is very much needed and appreciated. We need as much encouragement as we can get.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That was Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King Jr. At least they did not start new religions to add to the strife which the so-claimed messengers of the God did. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also did not start a new religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

Humanity is always in need of Educators to encourage and inspire us to get along. We seem to be struggling to accept all people unconditionally as our common humanity and prefer killing and mutilating one another. Another Voice appealing for us to reconcile our differences is very much needed and appreciated. We need as much encouragement as we can get.

Do Baha'is accept all people "unconditionally"? And who "prefers" killing and mutilating one another? Who are those people and why are they doing it, and how do they get people believe in them and follow them?

Oh, and sometimes those people are supposedly sent by God.

1 Kings 18:39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”​

40 Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.​

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Numbers 31:1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites...​

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3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them...​

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7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man... 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest...​

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13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.​

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15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.​

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Joshua 6:2 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands, along with its king and its fighting men.​

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20 When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.​

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[CG Didymus]

Those are Christ’s Words that those with a pure heart shall see God so I’m sure that those who have pure hearts have seen Him. And those who do not have pure hearts will deny Him. His Words on that topic are very clear.

In this age, I think maybe a pure heart is open to the Oneness of God and humanity.

This seems to be saying that a person that truly has a "pure" heart will see the Baha'u'llah is the true one from God. Those people with "pure" hearts will see the truth of the Baha'i Faith that God is one and humanity is one.

Those that do not have "pure" hearts will deny this?

This is still just Baha'is taking a few words from the Gospels and making them into something that can only mean one thing... the Baha'i Faith is the true religion of God. Yes, most of us know that is what you believe.

But do some believers in Christianity have "pure" hearts? Or people in Islam? Or in Hinduism? Or Buddhism? Or people that have no religion? Are Baha'is assuming that the heart of a Baha'i " is a little bit "purer" than the people that hold different beliefs? And those other people may even have a belief that the Baha'i Faith is not the true religion from God. So, how "pure" can that be?

Part of the Baha'i assumptions seem to be that if a person is pure of heart and is truly unbiased and takes an honest look at what the Baha'i Faith teaches, they will see that it is the truth. So, these other people, all though they may think they have a "pure" heart, they are holding on to their biased beliefs. They have preconceived beliefs and prejudices that are blinding them to the truth... that the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

Well, what else is new? All sorts of Christians say the same thing. Your "oneness" and the "oneness" of those Christians is... "Believe like us or you're wrong." Being "pure" of heart would be nice. But is it possible? As long as a person believes in a religion and its teachings, they are going to be biased towards those beliefs.

Maybe it's more like... "My motives and heart are pure. I believe that my religion is the truth." But no matter how sure you are and how "pure" you think your heart is... you might be wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This seems to be saying that a person that truly has a "pure" heart will see the Baha'u'llah is the true one from God. Those people with "pure" hearts will see the truth of the Baha'i Faith that God is one and humanity is one.

Those that do not have "pure" hearts will deny this?

This is still just Baha'is taking a few words from the Gospels and making them into something that can only mean one thing... the Baha'i Faith is the true religion of God. Yes, most of us know that is what you believe.

But do some believers in Christianity have "pure" hearts? Or people in Islam? Or in Hinduism? Or Buddhism? Or people that have no religion? Are Baha'is assuming that their "pure" hearts are a little bit "purer" than the people that hold different beliefs? And those other people may even have a belief that the Baha'i Faith is not the true religion from God?

Part of the Baha'i assumptions seem to be that if a person is pure of heart and is truly unbiased and takes an honest look at what the Baha'i Faith teaches, they will see that it is the truth. So, these other people, all though they may think they have a "pure" heart, they are holding on to their biased beliefs. They have preconceived beliefs and prejudices that are blinding them to the truth... that the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

Well, what else is new? All sorts of Christians say the same thing. Your "oneness" and the "oneness" of those Christians is... "Believe like us or you're wrong." Being "pure" of heart would be nice. But is it possible? As long as a person believes in a religion and its teachings, they are going to be biased towards those beliefs.

Maybe it's more like... "My motives and heart are pure. I believe that my religion is the truth." But no matter how sure you are and how "pure" you think your heart is... you might be wrong.

You get to choose the answer to those questions CG.

Baha'u'llah offered this about acceptance of the Manifestations.

Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth. As to those who have remained deprived of such blessing, their acts alone have hindered them from recognising the truth of this Revelation. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Dawnbreakers, p. 586)

Baha'u'llah has also offered, that in this day, we have been openly invited by the Manifestation to embrace God, what greater bounty is there? Why would we choose to ignore? That is the question I assume we can ask our own selves, as to examine our own hearts

"Behold how the manifold grace of God, which is being showered from the clouds of Divine glory, hath, in this day, encompassed the world. For whereas in days past every lover besought and searched after his Beloved, it is the Beloved Himself Who now is calling His lovers and is inviting them to attain His presence. Take heed lest ye forfeit so precious a favor; beware lest ye belittle so remarkable a token of His grace. Abandon not the incorruptible benefits, and be not content with that which perisheth. Lift up the veil that obscureth your vision, and dispel the darkness with which it is enveloped, that ye may gaze on the naked beauty of the Beloved's face, may behold that which no eye hath beheld, and hear that which no ear hath heard." (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 320)

There is an endless amount of material available on this aspect of faith.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

That was Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King Jr. At least they did not start new religions to add to the strife which the so-claimed messengers of the God did. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also did not start a new religion.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad started a new sect called Ahmadiyya Islam, and that is of little difference to starting a new religion in my view.

 

[CG Didymus]

You get to choose the answer to those questions CG.

Baha'u'llah offered this about acceptance of the Manifestations.

Be thankful to God for having enabled you to recognise His Cause. Whoever has received this blessing must, prior to his acceptance, have performed some deed which though he himself was unaware of its character, was ordained by God as a means whereby he has been guided to find and embrace the Truth. As to those who have remained deprived of such blessing, their acts alone have hindered them from recognising the truth of this Revelation. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Dawnbreakers, p. 586)

Baha'u'llah has also offered, that in this day, we have been openly invited by the Manifestation to embrace God, what greater bounty is there? Why would we choose to ignore? That is the question I assume we can ask our own selves, as to examine our own hearts

"Behold how the manifold grace of God, which is being showered from the clouds of Divine glory, hath, in this day, encompassed the world. For whereas in days past every lover besought and searched after his Beloved, it is the Beloved Himself Who now is calling His lovers and is inviting them to attain His presence. Take heed lest ye forfeit so precious a favor; beware lest ye belittle so remarkable a token of His grace. Abandon not the incorruptible benefits, and be not content with that which perisheth. Lift up the veil that obscureth your vision, and dispel the darkness with which it is enveloped, that ye may gaze on the naked beauty of the Beloved's face, may behold that which no eye hath beheld, and hear that which no ear hath heard." (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 320)

There is an endless amount of material available on this aspect of faith.

Regards Tony

I've known people in several religions that were so kind and loving, you know, having a "pure" heart. But they believed their religion was the truth. An important example of this would be those Born-Again Christians that say they love all people and love God and Jesus. They are so filled with the love of God that they feel obligated to tell all people that Jesus is the only way. They don't want people to die without knowing the saving grace of Jesus, and then to cast into hell.

So full of love, but most all of their major doctrines, Baha'is say are false. No "original" sin inherited from Adam. No Satan the devil. No hell. Jesus did not resurrect physically, and he is not God. They believe the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, descended at Pentecost. Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah is the Comforter.

Those Christians can be so filled with the love of God, but that Trinitarian God they believe in, according to Baha'i beliefs, isn't real.

Same with some Baha'is... they can be so loving, so "pure" hearted. But are the claims and beliefs of the Baha'i Faith true?

Just with those two religions, Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, we have two religious groups essentially saying the same thing... "Lift up the veil that obscures your vision" and see the truth. Two "truths" that contradict each other.

If "Christ" has come and most of us didn't know it, then everything those Christians say and believe about Jesus and what to expect when he returns is wrong. And maybe so. But, for me, there's a chance they are right, and the Baha'i Faith is wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've known people in several religions that were so kind and loving, you know, having a "pure" heart. But they believed their religion was the truth. An important example of this would be those Born-Again Christians that say they love all people and love God and Jesus. They are so filled with the love of God that they feel obligated to tell all people that Jesus is the only way. They don't want people to die without knowing the saving grace of Jesus, and then to cast into hell.

So full of love, but most all of their major doctrines, Baha'is say are false. No "original" sin inherited from Adam. No Satan the devil. No hell. Jesus did not resurrect physically, and he is not God. They believe the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, descended at Pentecost. Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah is the Comforter.

Those Christians can be so filled with the love of God, but that Trinitarian God they believe in, according to Baha'i beliefs, isn't real.

Same with some Baha'is... they can be so loving, so "pure" hearted. But are the claims and beliefs of the Baha'i Faith true?

Just with those two religions, Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, we have two religious groups essentially saying the same thing... "Lift up the veil that obscures your vision" and see the truth. Two "truths" that contradict each other.

If "Christ" has come and most of us didn't know it, then everything those Christians say and believe about Jesus and what to expect when he returns is wrong. And maybe so. But, for me, there's a chance they are right, and the Baha'i Faith is wrong.

The Quandary of choice CG.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad started a new sect called Ahmadiyya Islam, and that is of little difference to starting a new religion in my view.

Sects within a religion are not new religions, though in time, they may become new religions. Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism started as sects within Hinduism, and later became independent religions. Hinduism has thousands of sects.

 

[danieldemol]

Sects within a religion are not new religions, though in time, they may become new religions. Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism started as sects within Hinduism, and later became independent religions. Hinduism has thousands of sects.

I meant from the perspective of creating strife in my view, for a while Ahmadiyya women were banned from marrying Muslim non Ahmadiyya men, now they have to obtain permission from their leader which I believe to be ridiculously beurocratic.

Also one of their leaders declared other Muslims to be outside the fold of Islam although he spoke out of both sides of his mouth on the issue in my opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, for marriage, rules are clear in India. It is a matter between two adults, no bars.

 

[CG Didymus]

Humanity is always in need of Educators to encourage and inspire us to get along.

Lots of people accept Jesus as being the number one "most" loving person there ever was. Let's see how loving he was...

Matthew 12:22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”​

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24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”​

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And later he calls them...

34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good?​

​

These were one of the dominant religious groups of the time. Is he "inspiring" people to get along? No, he's constantly pointing out their hypocrisy. There is a religious and spiritual truth that Jesus felt is more important. Or was there?

We seem to be struggling to accept all people unconditionally

Jesus didn't accept these Pharisees "unconditionally". And Baha'is don't accept Christians that believe these verses and other verses in the Bible and the NT "unconditionally."

These verses start out with Jesus casting out demons. Baha'is don't believe in Satan and demons.

Baha’i scripture explains that heaven is nearness to God, while hell is distance from Him. There is no devil or Satan. So what does the term “devil” really mean? It is, the Baha’i teachings say, the “insistent self.” Our lower nature...​

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The Baha’i perspective on demons and exorcism is as follows:​

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O servants! This nether world is the abode of demons: Guard yourselves from approaching them. By demons is meant those wayward souls who, with the burden of their evil deeds, slumber in the chambers of oblivion. Their sleep is preferable to their wakefulness, and their death is better than their life. – Baha’u’llah, The Tabernacle of Unity, p. 69.​

So, as for the need for "educators", especially "divine" educators? If the Baha'i Faith is true, and it may well be, for 2000 years Christians have been following wrong information. The "educators" they've been believing in have told them things that aren't true.

And then about accepting other religions "unconditionally"? No. Baha'is don't even do that. They say that pretty much all the other religions have beliefs and doctrines, and especially interpretations that aren't true.

 

[Spice]

I've known people in several religions that were so kind and loving, you know, having a "pure" heart. But they believed their religion was the truth. An important example of this would be those Born-Again Christians that say they love all people and love God and Jesus. They are so filled with the love of God that they feel obligated to tell all people that Jesus is the only way. They don't want people to die without knowing the saving grace of Jesus, and then to cast into hell.

So full of love, but most all of their major doctrines, Baha'is say are false. No "original" sin inherited from Adam. No Satan the devil. No hell. Jesus did not resurrect physically, and he is not God. They believe the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, descended at Pentecost. Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah is the Comforter.

Those Christians can be so filled with the love of God, but that Trinitarian God they believe in, according to Baha'i beliefs, isn't real.

Same with some Baha'is... they can be so loving, so "pure" hearted. But are the claims and beliefs of the Baha'i Faith true?

Just with those two religions, Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, we have two religious groups essentially saying the same thing... "Lift up the veil that obscures your vision" and see the truth. Two "truths" that contradict each other.

If "Christ" has come and most of us didn't know it, then everything those Christians say and believe about Jesus and what to expect when he returns is wrong. And maybe so. But, for me, there's a chance they are right, and the Baha'i Faith is wrong.

More likely is that neither is completely wrong, nor completely right. Look at the commonalities rather than the differences and I believe you'll be closer to the truth. The truth of the Mysteries are beyond humankind, IMO, but sincere seeking is the correct path. However, sincere is not indoctrination, in my belief. I believe sincere is only through peaceful rebellion. FAITH -- questioning without end......
Namaste