By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

I gotta book.

And I have the movie. Are you saying it's not real?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yes, I find it interesting. As I look at it more closely, it says that man and animals have the same spirit. Same...spirit. Very interesting, thanks for that.

I’m glad you find it interesting…. But keep in mind, ru’ach is also translated as “wind,” or “breath”. According to the Bible, there’s no personality imbued with it, no consciousness….. just as “wind” or “breath” has none.

It’s simply a force.

 

[YoursTrue]

I’m glad you find it interesting…. But keep in mind, ru’ach is also translated as “wind,” or “breath”. According to the Bible, there’s no personality imbued with it, no consciousness….. just as “wind” or “breath” has none.

It’s simply a force.

That is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

I’m glad you find it interesting…. But keep in mind, ru’ach is also translated as “wind,” or “breath”. According to the Bible, there’s no personality imbued with it, no consciousness….. just as “wind” or “breath” has none.

It’s simply a force.

Ecclesiastes 3
19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.

Those verses are referring to the physical body.... The fate of human beings is like that of the animals because the same fate awaits them both: The physical body of both humans and animals dies and the body of both of them returns to dust.

Those verses say nothing about the spirit (soul) which lives on after the physical body dies.
The physical body is only a vehicle for the soul to express itself while we are living on earth, it has no identity.
The soul is who we are so it is responsible for our personality, which continues to exist in another form after the body dies.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I’m glad you find it interesting…. But keep in mind, ru’ach is also translated as “wind,” or “breath”. According to the Bible, there’s no personality imbued with it, no consciousness….. just as “wind” or “breath” has none.

It’s simply a force.

The Holy Spirit is a person in John 16, The Comforter.
Also, spirit in the Old Testament could talk and could also be an evil or lying spirit. Unclean spirits and demonic spirits could talk, All depends on the context, not always breath.
If you do a word search by concordance you can see that.

”However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
”Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.“
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭22‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[metis]

Now I was wondering -- if a person does not have the last rites before he dies, then what happens? Any penalty attached to that? After that perhaps you can explain more why some people (not talking about you necessarily but maybe you know) would rather stay Catholic than be a Jew.

Seems that you won't stick to the subject being discussed as you deflect, deflect. and deflect some more.

However, since you asked: God judges, not ritual. And the last question is just so utterly bizarre that I'll just skip any comment.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I love the Word of God and His perspective on things, no one is justified by the works of the law.

”For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2‬:‭28‬-‭29‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[blü 2]

It doesn't really matter if I'm Jewish or not. Because I'm asking you what you believe about what Jesus said. Since he said all the commandments are wrapped up (more or less) in two commandments, to love God and love your neighbor as yourself, since he said that, that's what I'm asking you -- if you think all the other commandments should or should not be followed.

According to Matthew's Jesus 5:18 "till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

It doesn't seem possible at this time to claim all is accomplished.

So Christians can still own slaves, Paul was wrong about being free to abandon circumcision, the Sabbath starts at sunset on Friday, God is not triune, and so on and so on.

Or else Matthew's Jesus screwed up ─ one or the other.

 

[ElishaElijah]

According to Matthew's Jesus 5:18 "till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

It doesn't seem possible at this time to claim all is accomplished.

So Christians can still own slaves, Paul was wrong about being free to abandon circumcision, the Sabbath starts at sunset on Friday, God is not triune, and so on and so on.

Or else Matthew's Jesus screwed up ─ one or the other.

The other option is you’re wrong in your assumption that you know what Jesus meant.
All has been accomplished, Jesus has entered the Most Holy place and presented His own blood atoning for our sins, the transgressions under the first covenant of the law have been redeemed.

”But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[blü 2]

The other option is you’re wrong in your assumption that you know what Jesus meant.
All has been accomplished, Jesus has entered the Most Holy place and presented His own blood atoning for our sins, the transgressions under the first covenant of the law have been redeemed.

No, all was not accomplished, since, as was expected, indeed demanded, by the apocalyptic politics of the time and place, the Son of Man had to come and establish the Kingdom on earth. You'll recall Jesus in Mark, Matthew and Luke promised the Kingdom would be established in the lifetime of some of his audience, but by the time John was written that notion was obviously a dud, so politely left unmentioned.

”But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Nope. Matthew, written some decades after Paul makes the statement I mentioned, and as of today, the earth has NOT passed away ─ the situation with heaven is less clear. So the author of Matthew clearly didn't agree with Paul, indeed may never have heard of him.

And very little in the NT is plainer than that the reason Paul advocated dropping the circumcision requirement was that it was slowing down sales. If you were a member of the mainstream Jewish faith, you'd know when there was a new covenant, because the Jewish religious establishment in Jerusalem had told you so, not some outsider who suffered from visions like Paul. If only they'd had EEGs in those days, history might have been different ...

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, all was not accomplished, since, as was expected, indeed demanded, by the apocalyptic politics of the time and place, the Son of Man had to come and establish the Kingdom on earth. You'll recall Jesus in Mark, Matthew and Luke promised the Kingdom would be established in the lifetime of some of his audience, but by the time John was written that notion was obviously a dud, so politely left unmentioned.

Nope. Matthew, written some decades after Paul makes the statement I mentioned, and as of today, the earth has NOT passed away ─ the situation with heaven is less clear. So the author of Matthew clearly didn't agree with Paul, indeed may never have heard of him.

And very little in the NT is plainer than that the reason Paul advocated dropping the circumcision requirement was that it was slowing down sales. If you were a member of the mainstream Jewish faith, you'd know when there was a new covenant, because the Jewish religious establishment in Jerusalem had told you so, not some outsider who suffered from visions like Paul. If only they'd had EEGs in those days, history might have been different ...

Boom!
”So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.“
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Complete and Done!
Paid in Full!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The Holy Spirit is a person in John 16, The Comforter.
Also, spirit in the Old Testament could talk and could also be an evil or lying spirit. Unclean spirits and demonic spirits could talk, All depends on the context, not always breath.
If you do a word search by concordance you can see that.

”However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
”Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.“
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭22‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Oh, I agree that there are sentient spirits with personalities, like angels.

But not all spirit is self-aware… like breath, and wind. It’s a force.

Take care.

 

[blü 2]

Boom!
”So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.“
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Complete and Done!
Paid in Full!

What was finished was his personal suicide mission, which he had foretold at eg Mark 2:20. The Kingdom was NOT established on earth, the Son of Man had NOT come to run the show. That "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) comes from Paul's adoption of a trope apparently originating in the Jewish quarter in Alexandria, who around the end of the 2nd century BCE in the course of practicing midrash came up with the notion that Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden because they'd sinned. It was a tale seized on by Augustine of Hippo around 400 CE who made it popular, as I may have mentioned.

But you've read the Garden story in Genesis, so you already know that nowhere does it mention sin, the Fall of Man, death entering the world, spiritual death, or anything of the kind. Instead, as you'll also know, God states [his] only reasons for expelling them from the Garden in Genesis 3:22-3, namely to protect [his] own position. It will also have struck you that at the time Eve and Adam respectively ate the fruit, God had denied them knowledge of good and evil ─ hence it was impossible for them to form an intention to do wrong, hence impossible for them to sin.

And did I already mention Ezekiel 18:20, where it says very clearly that sin can't be inherited, hence the concept of original sin is not only non-biblical but by bible standards is nonsense anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

Seems that you won't stick to the subject being discussed as you deflect, deflect. and deflect some more.

However, since you asked: God judges, not ritual. And the last question is just so utterly bizarre that I'll just skip any comment.

I don't mean to deflect, but you're right. Sometimes I don't stick to the subject. That's ok that you find whatever I said utterly bizarre -- did not read the comment you're commenting on -- but it's ok. Thanks, have a nice evening I hope you will anyway. Take care.

 

[YoursTrue]

Boom!
”So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.“
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Complete and Done!
Paid in Full!

Yes. He died. The sacrifice that his heavenly Father accepted as the Lamb of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Seems that you won't stick to the subject being discussed as you deflect, deflect. and deflect some more.

However, since you asked: God judges, not ritual. And the last question is just so utterly bizarre that I'll just skip any comment.

OK, I see the last comment you are talking about. I don't think my last comment was bizarre, sorry you think so. Because if any religion is OK by God then people can switch without thinking God is much involved like with the sacrifice of Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

Seems that you won't stick to the subject being discussed as you deflect, deflect. and deflect some more.

However, since you asked: God judges, not ritual. And the last question is just so utterly bizarre that I'll just skip any comment.

Again, that's ok that you won't comment. But then why are the last rites offered anyway if the ritual is not necessary?

 

[YoursTrue]

Boom!
”So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.“
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Complete and Done!
Paid in Full!

speaking of which, what do you think about the "last rites"? Do you know anything about that?

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, I agree that there are sentient spirits with personalities, like angels.

But not all spirit is self-aware… like breath, and wind. It’s a force.

Take care.

Yes -- The Greek for spirit is pneuma and is associated with pneo which means breathe or blow. The Hebrew word ruach is essentially the same thing. The Greek and Hebrew words basically mean breath but can have extended meanings beyond the basic sense which can be explored. Such as angel.

 

[ElishaElijah]

speaking of which, what do you think about the "last rites"? Do you know anything about that?

Not sure what you mean, do you have a Bible reference? I would encourage people to get right with God and settle that today. Pray for and with people till the last breath, after that it’s too late.

”For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.“
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭6‬:‭2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

”And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬